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Describing both genders

de Alkanadi, 5 de agosto de 2014

Mensagens: 13

Idioma: English

sergejm (Mostrar o perfil) 6 de agosto de 2014 08:33:30

sergejm:Esperanto doesn't have words that are "neutral or masculine", but there is a word "masculine or neutral". It is "li".
Zamenhof:Cetere, parolante pri infano, pri kiu ni scias, ke ĝi ne estas knabino (aŭ almenaŭ ne scias, ke ĝi estas knabino), ni povas uzi la vorton «li»."
I think namely about this "li" then I wrote.
You can use "ĝi" or "li" as you like.
But imagine, you are reading a book there apears a person, which gender the author don't tell us.
After some pages he (or should I speak "it"? - the author's gender is unknown too) tell us that it is a woman. If the author uses "ĝi" at these pages, it will be suspectible, and you can expect that the person may be a woman. If the author uses "li", you won't think about the person's gender till it will be known.
If in the book appears a dog, it is normal to use "ĝi" even after we know that it is "hundino". Using of "li" will be an error.

sparksbet (Mostrar o perfil) 8 de agosto de 2014 21:06:32

sergejm:
sergejm:Esperanto doesn't have words that are "neutral or masculine", but there is a word "masculine or neutral". It is "li".
Zamenhof:Cetere, parolante pri infano, pri kiu ni scias, ke ĝi ne estas knabino (aŭ almenaŭ ne scias, ke ĝi estas knabino), ni povas uzi la vorton «li»."
I think namely about this "li" then I wrote.
You can use "ĝi" or "li" as you like.
But imagine, you are reading a book there apears a person, which gender the author don't tell us.
After some pages he (or should I speak "it"? - the author's gender is unknown too) tell us that it is a woman. If the author uses "ĝi" at these pages, it will be suspectible, and you can expect that the person may be a woman. If the author uses "li", you won't think about the person's gender till it will be known.
If in the book appears a dog, it is normal to use "ĝi" even after we know that it is "hundino". Using of "li" will be an error.
In English, referring to a human being as "it" is generally considered offensive, so traditionally the rules have been to use "he" as the default pronoun. Due to feminist concerns, more people are using "he or she," the singular "they," or switching between "he" and "she" as defaults for those of unknown gender. However, many still insist on using "he" when gender is unknown.

That said, English grammar doesn't have any bearing on Esperanto grammar, so Esperantists shouldn't assume that Esperanto defaults to "li" or that "li" can be anything but masculine. To be safe, I generally use "li aŭ ŝi" or "tiu" in such a situation, but I wouldn't be offended if someone used ĝi.

AllenHartwell (Mostrar o perfil) 10 de agosto de 2014 01:17:37

Tiu is perfect.

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