メッセージ: 8
言語: English
Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2014年8月13日 8:13:15
nornen:If you translate it word for word, it is hard to understand for someone whose first language isn't English.Of course. Why didn't I think about that. Thanks
Esperanto has the suffix -ig- for causatives.
You make mi smile. = Vi ridetigas min.
sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2014年8月13日 9:57:14
You make me smile. = Vi ridetigas min.Or even vi igas min rideti.
There are 7 hits in the Tekstaro for 'ridetigi'. But igi as a stand alone verb is common enough (382 hits).
The choice is a question of style I suppose.
Scanning the first 1000 hits (the Tekstaro's maximum) there seem to very few cases where the -ig is preceded by a suffix, but no rule prevents this.
Igi as a separate verb allows you to avoid inelegant constructions like igig or iĝig.
From the Tekstaro:
kiuj igis la estraron antaŭ du jaroj kunigi la funkciojn
...nin igi ruĝiĝi antaŭ ili
sparksbet (プロフィールを表示) 2014年8月14日 17:05:49
sudanglo:While I'm all for using 'igi' on its own when the sentence would be cumbersome or confusing otherwise, I think it's more elegant to add it to the verb when possible. "Vi rigetigas min" flows in a way that "Vi igas min rideti" doesn't. As for your numbers from the Tekstaro, considering how rarely one would need to use a word for "to make [someone] smile" as opposed to the generic verb for "to make/cause" (which would include its use with any verb), I think 7:382 is actually a pretty good ratio and is more a case for using "ridetigi" than it is against it.You make me smile. = Vi ridetigas min.Or even vi igas min rideti.
There are 7 hits in the Tekstaro for 'ridetigi'. But igi as a stand alone verb is common enough (382 hits).
But that's just semantics. Either one would make perfect sense to virtually any Esperantist.
nornen (プロフィールを表示) 2014年8月14日 18:05:19
sparksbet:As for your numbers from the Tekstaro, considering how rarely one would need to use a word for "to make [someone] smile" as opposed to the generic verb for "to make/cause" (which would include its use with any verb), I think 7:382 is actually a pretty good ratio and is more a case for using "ridetigi" than it is against it.Very good point: "Never trust any statistics that you didn't forge yourself." as our friend Winston Churchill (is supposed to have) said.
The tekstaro yields 378 appearances for stand-alone igi (\Wig\VF\W).
It yields over 1000 appearances (I do not know how many) for xigi (\wig\VF\W).
So I second your opinion that stand-alone igi should be a means reserved for the case, when the result would otherwise be cumbersome or confusing.
sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2014年8月15日 9:29:34
is more a case for using "ridetigi" than it is against itI wasn't trying argue that ridetigi min is inferior to igi min rideti - just pointing out an alternative.
Of course, ig as a suffix is really common in Esperanto.
If there were no maximum for the number of hits in the Tekstaro, it would be easily demonstrated that the instances of that far out weigh the 380 or so instances of igi as a separate verb.
However, I think that my personal preference might be for igi min rideti, and I have a gut feeling that there can be a difference (even if nuanca) between root+ig+finaĵo and igi root+finaĵo. But can't off the cuff produce good evidence for that as a generality.
Do you feel that there is a difference between say varmegigi ion and igi ion varmega? The first seems to me to be an active process (intensely heating); the second referring to a resultant state.
Of course, you could translate 'he makes me smile' without 'ridet' - something along the lines of li amuzas min, or mi lin trovas tre amuza
sparksbet (プロフィールを表示) 2014年8月15日 15:50:48
sudanglo:I agree that the former phrase definitely sounds somewhat more purposeful than the latter. I'd probably still use "varmegigi" nine times out of ten, but I see what you mean about the difference in nuance.
Do you feel that there is a difference between say varmegigi ion and igi ion varmega? The first seems to me to be an active process (intensely heating); the second referring to a resultant state.