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Imperative -u or Infinitive -i for User interfaces

viết bởi Spaghetti, Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

Tin nhắn: 9

Nội dung: English

Spaghetti (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 01:08:41 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

I have seen infinatives and imperatives used interchangably in user interfaces. Examples of the infinitive include "elsaluti" for "log out" and "antaŭmontri" for "preview" (both lernu.net). I have also seen the use of imperatives for example "Sendu" for "Submit"/"Send" and "elsalutu" for "log out" (lernu.net and reddit). Different websites and programs use different convention. Sometimes different conventions are used within a single program or website. To me it makes sense to use imperative. Does anyone know the reasons for the different conventions? Dankon!

Fenris_kcf (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 05:13:57 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

The reason is quite simple: The interfaces are initially written with English strings and in English it's not possible to tell if a word in present is indicative or imperative (except for third person singular), e.g. "send" — is it an order or a plain action?

If i translate such interfaces i keep using the infinitive for two reasons: My mother tongue does so and i really don't like the idea of "talking" to a machine.

johmue (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 05:33:21 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

Spaghetti:I have seen infinatives and imperatives used interchangably in user interfaces. Examples of the infinitive include "elsaluti" for "log out" and "antaŭmontri" for "preview" (both lernu.net). I have also seen the use of imperatives for example "Sendu" for "Submit"/"Send" and "elsalutu" for "log out" (lernu.net and reddit). Different websites and programs use different convention. Sometimes different conventions are used within a single program or website. To me it makes sense to use imperative. Does anyone know the reasons for the different conventions? Dankon!
I once attended a seminar on this topic. There they recommended using the infinitive form for buttons and the imperative form when the software requests the user to do something e.g. "Ensalutu por afiŝi komenton."

sparksbet (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 14:27:14 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

Like Fenris said, it's because the English imperative uses the infinitive form of the verb (minus the "to" that marks the infinitive in sentences). They're completely indistinguishable in English. I've seen -i form used in most areas on Esperanto sites, but when translating from English it's difficult to figure out which fits the situation better, so some inconsistency can be expected.

Alkanadi (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 14:48:17 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

I am just a noob and I can't answer your question, but I think that using the -u ending makes more logical sense.

Good observation though. I didn't notice until you mentioned it.

Spaghetti (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:16:16 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

sparksbet:Like Fenris said, it's because the English imperative uses the infinitive form of the verb (minus the "to" that marks the infinitive in sentences). They're completely indistinguishable in English. I've seen -i form used in most areas on Esperanto sites, but when translating from English it's difficult to figure out which fits the situation better, so some inconsistency can be expected.
If it is simply because of the difficulty of knowing when translating from English why wouldn't the translation be changed to imperative in cases where it becomes obvious that the Engilsh use is imperative. It seems to me that there must be something more to it.

sergejm (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:35:16 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

"Open" on a button means "To open a file, click this button", so it is to be translated "Malfermi". The same is for menu items and toolbars (in tooltips). To Russian it is translated by infinitive "Открыть" or by noun: "Print" "Печать"
"Name:" ("Nomo:" ) before edit field means "Enter your name here:" ("Enmetu vian nomon ĉi tie:" ).
So I think as Joemue.

mbalicki (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 16:00:55 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

Spaghetti:If it is simply because of the difficulty of knowing when translating from English why wouldn't the translation be changed to imperative in cases where it becomes obvious that the Engilsh use is imperative. It seems to me that there must be something more to it.
sergejm:"Open" on a button means "To open a file, click this button", so it is to be translated "Malfermi". The same is for menu items and toolbars (in tooltips). To Russian it is translated by infinitive "Открыть" or by noun: "Print" "Печать"
So there you have it. Sometimes it must also come from the habit of the translator, because in polish inscriptions like “Open” (Otwórz), “Print” (Drukuj), “Save” (Zapisz) &c. are always translated using imperative case.

Another factor may be, that not every translating panel is perfect, so translated phrase (like “Open”) may be presented without a good context, therefore if the translator will think of it as a infinitive, then the translation will use infinitive. Also, because this inscription, ambiguous in English, can appear both as an imperative (“command” given to the computer) and as an infinitive (preceded by some kind of question “What would you like to do now?”) it may also be the case, that a translating panel do not separate these two usages, therefore the translator is left alone with his guesses.

bartlett22183 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 17:14:41 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2014

My personal experience on Esperanto-language websites has been that it really makes no difference whether the page uses '-i' or '-u' for various functions to accomplish some tasks. The meaning is completely clear in either case.

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