I can't roll my Rs. I can fake it though, sort of, but not all of the time.

For example, in the word "frato", I can fake the r to make it sound like it should but in the word "patrino" I can't roll it at all.

In either case, I can't authentically roll my R.

Can I still be successful in Esperanto?

examples...:
frato: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0xMFtSdTapO
patrino: http://vocaroo.com/i/s13LZLLZvsp7

As you can see, there is an imitated rolled-r on the frato, but not on patrino.

jdersen:I can't roll my Rs. I can fake it though, sort of, but not all of the time.

For example, in the word "frato", I can fake the r to make it sound like it should but in the word "patrino" I can't roll it at all.

In either case, I can't authentically roll my R.

Can I still be successful in Esperanto?

examples...:
frato: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0xMFtSdTapO
patrino: http://vocaroo.com/i/s13LZLLZvsp7

As you can see, there is an imitated rolled-r on the frato, but not on patrino.

Say the word "butter." If you don't say the T's as actual T's, then what you did was probably just flip the tip of your tongue against the gum ridge above your upper teeth. Is that the case? If so, then THAT is the sound the Esperanto R has. An actual trill is not strictly necessary.

orthohawk:

jdersen:I can't roll my Rs. I can fake it though, sort of, but not all of the time.

For example, in the word "frato", I can fake the r to make it sound like it should but in the word "patrino" I can't roll it at all.

In either case, I can't authentically roll my R.

Can I still be successful in Esperanto?

examples...:
frato: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0xMFtSdTapO
patrino: http://vocaroo.com/i/s13LZLLZvsp7

As you can see, there is an imitated rolled-r on the frato, but not on patrino.

Say the word "butter." If you don't say the T's as actual T's, then what you did was probably just flip the tip of your tongue against the gum ridge above your upper teeth. Is that the case? If so, then THAT is the sound the Esperanto R has. An actual trill is not strictly necessary.

Yes, that is the case. So, does my "patrino" sound fine in Esperanto? That's literally all I get when I try to say it.

jdersen:

orthohawk:

jdersen:I can't roll my Rs. I can fake it though, sort of, but not all of the time.

For example, in the word "frato", I can fake the r to make it sound like it should but in the word "patrino" I can't roll it at all.

In either case, I can't authentically roll my R.

Can I still be successful in Esperanto?

examples...:
frato: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0xMFtSdTapO
patrino: http://vocaroo.com/i/s13LZLLZvsp7

As you can see, there is an imitated rolled-r on the frato, but not on patrino.

Say the word "butter." If you don't say the T's as actual T's, then what you did was probably just flip the tip of your tongue against the gum ridge above your upper teeth. Is that the case? If so, then THAT is the sound the Esperanto R has. An actual trill is not strictly necessary.

Yes, that is the case. So, does my "patrino" sound fine in Esperanto? That's literally all I get when I try to say it.

It sounds fine. The R in frato is as near perfect as you can get without getting there . The problem with the R in patrino is that the T and R are both made with the tip of the tongue, so it's a case of the tongue tip needing to pronounce the T and then the R in rapid succession. With the R in "frato", the R is, in a way, "by iteself" so it's easier to say.

orthohawk:
Say the word "butter." If you don't say the T's as actual T's, then what you did was probably just flip the tip of your tongue against the gum ridge above your upper teeth. Is that the case? If so, then THAT is the sound the Esperanto R has. An actual trill is not strictly necessary.

I now have a new method to teach people how to "roll" their r's.

I have had spanish since elementary school and it took me some time to learn the difficult pairings like in patro. In a lot of the Esperanto I've heard people do not roll the R's anyway, and I see it as a way of accentuating the R in a situation where it may be difficult to hear.

kaŝperanto:

orthohawk:
Say the word "butter." If you don't say the T's as actual T's, then what you did was probably just flip the tip of your tongue against the gum ridge above your upper teeth. Is that the case? If so, then THAT is the sound the Esperanto R has. An actual trill is not strictly necessary.

I now have a new method to teach people how to "roll" their r's.

I have had spanish since elementary school and it took me some time to learn the difficult pairings like in patro. In a lot of the Esperanto I've heard people do not roll the R's anyway, and I see it as a way of accentuating the R in a situation where it may be difficult to hear.

I have used this method with my Spanish students for years, the vast majority of whom swear up and down that they just CANNOT say the Spanish R .

orthohawk:

kaŝperanto:

orthohawk:
Say the word "butter." If you don't say the T's as actual T's, then what you did was probably just flip the tip of your tongue against the gum ridge above your upper teeth. Is that the case? If so, then THAT is the sound the Esperanto R has. An actual trill is not strictly necessary.

I now have a new method to teach people how to "roll" their r's.

I have had spanish since elementary school and it took me some time to learn the difficult pairings like in patro. In a lot of the Esperanto I've heard people do not roll the R's anyway, and I see it as a way of accentuating the R in a situation where it may be difficult to hear.

I have used this method with my Spanish students for years, the vast majority of whom swear up and down that they just CANNOT say the Spanish R .

So has there ever been anyone who couldn't pronounce the R? I've always wondered if it was just a lack of confidence/willingness, or if it was a true lack of ability.

I find that I have a particular mental block that affects me in public/social situations. For example, I was at lunch with coworkers at a local Mexican restaurant today, and I was capable of fully ordering "la burrito de chile verde" - let alone pronouncing it - but I backed out and pronounced it the "Americanized" way. I sometimes feel it would be rude/awkward to display superior knowledge than my comrades, but I also feel like it could be demeaning to the waiter/waitress to use his/her native tongue when I know full-well that they regularly take orders in English. I don't believe I would feel this way if I were in central/south America in a restaurant.

I also find it hard to switch back and forth quickly and have to put myself in the right mindset to do proper pronunciation. So I'm somewhat entertained when one of my roommates speaks mixed Spanish-English to his parents while switching back and forth like it's nothing.

I guess I'm just strange when it comes to pronunciation.

kaŝperanto:

orthohawk:

kaŝperanto:

orthohawk:
Say the word "butter." If you don't say the T's as actual T's, then what you did was probably just flip the tip of your tongue against the gum ridge above your upper teeth. Is that the case? If so, then THAT is the sound the Esperanto R has. An actual trill is not strictly necessary.

I now have a new method to teach people how to "roll" their r's.

I have had spanish since elementary school and it took me some time to learn the difficult pairings like in patro. In a lot of the Esperanto I've heard people do not roll the R's anyway, and I see it as a way of accentuating the R in a situation where it may be difficult to hear.

I have used this method with my Spanish students for years, the vast majority of whom swear up and down that they just CANNOT say the Spanish R .

So has there ever been anyone who couldn't pronounce the R? I've always wondered if it was just a lack of confidence/willingness, or if it was a true lack of ability.

I find that I have a particular mental block that affects me in public/social situations. For example, I was at lunch with coworkers at a local Mexican restaurant today, and I was capable of fully ordering "la burrito de chile verde" - let alone pronouncing it - but I backed out and pronounced it the "Americanized" way. I sometimes feel it would be rude/awkward to display superior knowledge than my comrades, but I also feel like it could be demeaning to the waiter/waitress to use his/her native tongue when I know full-well that they regularly take orders in English. I don't believe I would feel this way if I were in central/south America in a restaurant.

I also find it hard to switch back and forth quickly and have to put myself in the right mindset to do proper pronunciation. So I'm somewhat entertained when one of my roommates speaks mixed Spanish-English to his parents while switching back and forth like it's nothing.

I guess I'm just strange when it comes to pronunciation.

I think it's important to note the difference between two things Americans commonly call rolled r's - the alveolar trill/trilled r, written in Spanish as "rr," and the alveolar flap/flapped r, written in Spanish as "r." As far as I know, anyone can make a flapped r, but some people are unable to make the trilled r for one reason or another. The letter "r" in Esperanto is a flapped r.
My linguistics professor used the same method as you to show us that phoneme, orthohawk! My music director (when we were singing a song in some Romance language) told us to act like there was an imaginary "d" in front of the r, which helped me get it in those contexts.

I always pronounce menu items in an Americanized way when speaking English. To me, it sounds pretentious to insist on a fully foreign accent pronouncing a word, when actually speaking English. It gets on my nerves when people say "Esperanto" with the Esperanto pronunciation, even when speaking English. It's like a French person who is speaking French insisting on saying "London" in a British accent rather than simply calling it Londres.

Some cooking show people do it and it drives me up the wall. Giada de Laurentiis does it, she'll be talking along in normal English and then she says "And then you add your parmiggiano reggiano [in an Italian accent] to your gnocchi [again in an Italian accent]". I switch the channel, I just can't take it.

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The suggestion on d works well. Try pronouncing "fdato" and you'll be close.

The thing is, there are a few people who can't roll r's but they are mostly in the older generation. People will understand you better if you can manage a flap or a roll. I once talked to a French guy who was not able to hear the presence of an English language R in an Esperanto sentence. He simply couldn't hear that any R of any sort was present, not even a "wrong" R.

sparksbet:The letter "r" in Esperanto is a flapped r.

I try to use the trilled r for geminate r as in interreto or superrigardo to distinguish it from the single r.

Anybody else do this?