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Someone wants someone to do - Structure

af mehmetf, 7. sep. 2014

Meddelelser: 7

Sprog: English

mehmetf (Vise profilen) 7. sep. 2014 19.31.31

Saluton,

Mi ne sercxis suficxe cxe la forumo, cxar mia esperanto kaj ankaux mia angla lingvo ne estas bona. Mi volas lerni la strukturon, por ekzemple;

I want you to read a book.

Cxu tio estas tiel;

Mi volas vin legi libron?

aux?

Mi volas ke vi legas libron?

Cxu ne, kiel estas?

Dankon por respondon.

BoriQa (Vise profilen) 7. sep. 2014 19.53.04

mehmetf:I want you to read a book.

Mi volas ke vi legas libron?
Almost. You just need a "," to separate the 2nd clause (almost always in front of "ke" ):

>> Mi volas, ke vi legas libron.

Baliurel (Vise profilen) 7. sep. 2014 20.40.00

I want you to read a book.
=
Mi volas ke vi legu libron

When should I use the -u verb ending? http://en.lernu.net/lernado/gramatiko/demandoj/u.p... :
«The ending -u is used also in subclauses after the subjunctions ke and por ke, if the main clause in some way shows will, desire, aim, etc. Note that this rule applies even when the verb of the main clause has some other time.
-Ili volas, ke vi laboru. - They want you to work.
-Mi multe legos, por ke poste mi povu bone prelegi. - I'll read a lot, so that afterward I can lecture well. (So that I should be able to lecture well.)
-Skribu la leteron tuj, por ke ni sendu ĝin ĝustatempe. - Write the letter immediately, so that we can send it in time. (So that we should be able to send it in time.)
-Ŝiaj gepatroj petis, ke li morgaŭ vizitu ilin. - Her parents asked that he visit tomorrow. (That he should visit tomorrow.)

In order to better understand the use of the ending -u in subclauses, compare the following sentences:
-Ŝi diris, ke ŝi venos morgaŭ. - She said that she will come tomorrow.
-Mi petis, ke ŝi venu morgaŭ. - I asked her to come tomorrow.
-Mi ĝojas, ke vi bone fartas. - I'm glad you're doing well.
-Mi deziras, ke vi fartu bone. - I want you to be well. (I want that you should be well.)
-Mi kuris tiel rapide, ke li ne povis kapti min. - I ran so fast that he could not catch me.
-Mi volis kuri tiel rapide, ke li ne povu kapti min. - I wanted to run so fast that he could not catch me. (So that he should not be able to catch me.) »

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That means: «Mi ordonas al vi, ke vi estu feliĉa»
Or you can say in that other way «Mi ordonas vin: estu feliĉa».

BoriQa (Vise profilen) 8. sep. 2014 00.08.11

BoriQa:>> Mi volas, ke vi legas libron.
I stand corrected!

-> Mi volas, ke vi legu libron.

Baliurel (Vise profilen) 8. sep. 2014 00.14.13

I will try to explain about that -u ending, despite for me it's a bit hard to try to write -think- in English.

In Spanish, the someone-wants-someone-to-do structure, is closer to the Esperanto than English, so for me is easy to understand how it works.(Smile: in fact, is in English where I can't see a developed logic structure, so I fail when I try to write that kind of sentences in English, unless I move with caution! okulumo.gif )

I'll make a simple example, just think about that three kinds of sentences:
negative, affirmative, interrogative.

Well, now remark that is impossible be Negative and Affirmative at the same time.
If something is Not, then can't be Yes at the same time. Or is Yes or it's Not.

In the same way, it's impossible to be Affirmative and Interrogative at the same time:
if a sentence is affirmative, then is not a question; and if is a question, then is not a fact.

They're contradictory concepts, so incompatible.

So, about the -u ending in your sentence:

You can not use in an order the -as ending, because if you use they at the same time, then, you would be using at the same time two different dimensions of a verb.
I can't order: «you are reading!» because that is not a command, it's just a fact.

So, if you say: «Mi volas, ke vi *legas* libron», you are not saying that what you want is that someone read a book. No, that what you are saying there is... is a confusing mix of concepts:
you are saying someone is doing something at this moment, and you are saying that you want to make a command, but that command is about something what is actually a fact happening in that moment, so doesn't make sense that you make the command.

They're contradictory concepts, so incompatible.

Do you understand what I'm trying to explain?

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sudanglo (Vise profilen) 8. sep. 2014 10.36.19

The answer has been given. I want you to read - mi volas, ke vi legu.

However, perhaps it is instructive to examine why Mi volas vin legi libron won't do.

Someone might object that you can say Mi aŭdis lin diri tion, which looks on the surface to be the same structure.

But there is an important difference. Here lin is the object of aŭdi (as well as the subject of diri), and the shorter sentence mi aŭdis lin makes sense and is just less specific.

The shorter sentence mi volas vin, however changes the meaning. Now you are the object of my desire, which is not at all the implication of I want you to ...

As vin can't be the object of voli nor can it be the object of legi, we must reject mi volas vin legi libron.

sergejm (Vise profilen) 8. sep. 2014 11.04.22

Also compare: mi volas vin vidi means I want to see you, not I want you to see

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