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Why is this wrong?

от Alkanadi, 10 сентября 2014 г.

Сообщений: 25

Язык: English

Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 8:00:43

Is this wrong?

Eng: Do you want cars to drive themselves?
Esp: Ĉu vi volas aŭtojn stiri sin?

Also, should it be si or sin?

Thanks

johmue (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 8:13:12

Alkanadi:Is this wrong?

Eng: Do you want cars to drive themselves?
Esp: Ĉu vi volas aŭtojn stiri sin?
It is wrong. Why? Simply because Esperanto does not work this way. It's a classical anglicism.
Also, should it be si or sin?
The verb is "stiri ion", so it would be "stiri sin"

Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 8:22:50

johmue:
It is wrong. Why? Simply because Esperanto does not work this way. It's a classical anglicism.
Is it possible to be more specific so that I can learn from my mistake?

johmue (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 8:26:53

Alkanadi:
johmue:
It is wrong. Why? Simply because Esperanto does not work this way. It's a classical anglicism.
Is it possible to be more specific so that I can learn from my mistake?
The English to want somebody to do something cannot be translated to Esperanto this way. Neither to German or French. In Esperanto it would be something like voli, ke iu faru ion.

johmue (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 8:34:33

johmue:
Alkanadi:
johmue:
It is wrong. Why? Simply because Esperanto does not work this way. It's a classical anglicism.
Is it possible to be more specific so that I can learn from my mistake?
The English to want somebody to do something cannot be translated to Esperanto this way. Neither to German or French. In Esperanto it would be something like voli, ke iu faru ion.
To be even a bit more specific: I think Ĉu vi volas aŭtojn stiri sin? would be hard to understand to people who don't know English. People learning English as a foreign language usually spent several lessons of exercise to get trained what the expression to want sombody to do something means and how to use it. It's far from obvious for people who are not familiar with English.

Fenris_kcf (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 8:36:04

Alkanadi:
johmue:
It is wrong. Why? Simply because Esperanto does not work this way. It's a classical anglicism.
Is it possible to be more specific so that I can learn from my mistake?
Trying to translate a sentence directly from one language to another often results in such mistakes. In order to prevent this, you should first decompose the sentence into logic entities and then form a respresentation in another language out of this decomposition.

Then in your sentence you would notice, that it contains two sub-sentences. The first being "Do you want (this / that / the following)?". The second being "Cars drive themselves.". To connect these two one uses the conjunction "ke" in Esperanto to somehow make the second the object of the first (just as you can use "that" in English):

„Ĉu vi volas (…)?“
„Veturiloj stiriĝas aŭtomate.“

Combined:
„Ĉu vi volas, ke veturiloj stiriĝas aŭtomate?“

EldanarLambetur (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 14:54:14

It should be:
  • Ĉu vi volas ke aǔtoj stiru sin?
See here.

The verb tenses in "-as/is/os" all talk about real events that are happening, happened, or will happen (respectively). The "-u" ending is necessary for expressing desired events (these don't fit into the aforementioned 3 categories).

(Note that this means "Ĉu vi volas, ke veturiloj stiriĝas aŭtomate" is incorrect. The driving is not happening, it's only desired (via "volas" )).

Mustelvulpo (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 18:01:50

This is optional of course, but to me the adding "la" and "mem" to the sentence makes the idea more understandable. (La aŭtoj to mean cars in general.)-- Ĉu vi volas ke la aŭtoj mem stiru sin?

drinkulo (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 19:01:29

See this sentence:
Ĉu vi volas memstirantajn/sinstirantajn veturilojn?

This is a sentence less english and more esperanto

morfran (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 19:27:09

Alkanadi:Eng: Do you want cars to drive themselves?
Esp: Ĉu vi volas aŭtojn stiri sin?
Simply put, if the thing you want is a noun of some sort, use the accusative case:

Ĉu vi deziras memstirajn aŭtojn? || Do you want self-driving cars?

If the thing you want is a clause, you have two options. If the subject of the main clause is the same as in the subordinate clause, you can elide the subject in the subordinate clause and make the verb there an infinitive:

Vi volas +
Vi veturu en memstiraj aŭtoj =
Ĉu vi volas veturi en memstiraj aŭtoj? || Do you want to ride in self-driving cars?

If the subjects are different in both clauses, the subordinate clause is introduced by ke:

Vi volas +
aŭtoj stiru sin mem =
Ĉu vi volas, ke aŭtoj stiru sin mem? || Do you want that cars should drive themselves?

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