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Compound(ing) Words

de Frakseno, 27 de dezembro de 2007

Mensagens: 8

Idioma: English

Frakseno (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de dezembro de 2007 23:16:09

What are the rules for making compound words? For example - out of an adjective and a noun? Is the final "a" of the adjective dropped?

Something like "Verdviro" for "green man"?

RiotNrrd (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de dezembro de 2007 03:13:10

Frakseno:What are the rules for making compound words?
Here is a cut-and-paste job from an explanation of the 16 rules of Esperanto by Don Harlow (the full page is HERE):

11. COMPOUND WORDS are formed by simple juxtaposition of words (the main word stands at the end); the grammatical endings are also viewed as independent words.

Depending upon the sound produced when the two words are put
together, the speaker may wish to insert a vowel between the
two. If this is done, the vowel should be an o if the leading
word is an object, or an i if the leading word is an action.
Purists might also wish to put in an n if the trailing word is
an action acting on the leading word, but this is not mandatory.

EXAMPLES
ŝipo (ship) + veturi (travel)
= ŝip(o)veturo (a journey by ship).
ami (to love) + plena (full)
= am(o)plena (full of love)
pagi (to pay) + povi (to be able)
= pag(i)pova (able to pay)
nenio (nothing) + fari (to do)
= neni(o[n])fara (doing nothing)


So, "verdviro" is perfectly acceptable. "Verdaviro" will also work, but is indistinguishable from the two words spoken separately (so compounding them with the "a" doesn't really gain you anything in terms of either conciseness or meaning).

Frakseno (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de dezembro de 2007 19:34:26

Thank you, RiotNrrd!

I don't know why I didn't think of going to the 16 rules.

Filu (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de dezembro de 2007 23:57:27

RiotNrrd:So, "verdviro" is perfectly acceptable. "Verdaviro" will also work, but is indistinguishable from the two words spoken separately (so compounding them with the "a" doesn't really gain you anything in terms of either conciseness or meaning).
Just a little comment on this...
If we add "agrabla" to "verda viro", we end up with "agrabla verda viro", which could be interpreted two different ways (either "agrabla verda" viro or agrabla "verda viro"). Therefore, I think using "verdaviro" does fine tune the meaning of the expression.

Even though it is accordingly not a very good example, for verdviro works just fine, agrabla allows me to switch to a better example... So here it goes:

Agrablverda viro (the pronunciation of this is rather tedious to the untrained Frenchie I am, and being also an okay English-speaker, I don't recall this type of consonnant mix in English either)...

So let's switch to... Agrablaverda viro. The stress being on the penultimate syllable of the word, there is a possibility to speak it in such a way that there is no ambiguity as to what we mean, but I'll agree that it is subtle. On the other hand, it removes the ambiguity quite efficiently when it is written.

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Matthieu (Mostrar o perfil) 29 de dezembro de 2007 20:56:00

To me, agrabla verda viro only means agrabla “verda viro”, and instead of “agrabla verda” viro I would say agrable verda viro.

Am I wrong?

Filu (Mostrar o perfil) 29 de dezembro de 2007 21:37:24

Mutusen:To me, agrabla verda viro only means agrabla “verda viro”, and instead of “agrabla verda” viro I would say agrable verda viro.

Am I wrong?
What you mentioned was also my first opinion, but I came to think that agrable verda homo could also be interpreted as if "ungreen" people wouldn't be quite so pleasant. Think of a Marsian coming back to his planet and realizing how restful it is to finally see some green skin around him:

Finfine, post jaroj sur tiu senverdhoma planedo, mi denove renkontis agrable verdan homon.

It doesn't mean that the green was especially nice among other greens, but simply that green was in any case more enjoyable than pink, brown, red or black.

Do you agree, or is my mind in outer space?

carnifex (Mostrar o perfil) 29 de dezembro de 2007 22:15:22

In your sentence, you may interpret it like this just because you provide supporting context for it. Without that there is absolutely no necessity for such an interpretation, and I would by default stick to "agrable verda viro" as "(pleasantly green) man". Mutusen's remark about "agrabla verda viro" meaning "pleasant (green man)" is also correct, because that is how Eastern European languages tend to parse modifiers, and since Esperanto was created in that context, I believe the intended parsing is similar in Esperanto as well.

As a side note, yes, most Eastern European languages do not find "big dog house" ambiguous, because it is by default "big (dog house)".

Filu (Mostrar o perfil) 30 de dezembro de 2007 14:01:49

carnifex:::*Please see just above::*
Thanks for taking the time to answer.

However, your answer got me wondering about the house of a big dog...

I would tend to use grandhunda domo, but it seems like grande hunda domo
would pretty much mean the same thing, isn't it? Maybe it's only me, but "grande hunda" makes me think of "tre hunda" (tre hunda domo demando.gif )... I would tend to prefer the former.

On the other hand, I was also curious to know how Easter European languages would interpret verda homo agrabla and homo verda agrabla.

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