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Correlatives/ Relatives

از lemonxlime, 15 نوامبر 2014

پست‌ها: 5

زبان: English

lemonxlime (نمایش مشخصات) 15 نوامبر 2014،‏ 6:13:49

I'm having some trouble with correlatives. I'm okay with putting them together and understanding the meaning of each one (which I know will get easier with more practice) but when using two together, it's very confusing.

I'm using Kurso de Esperanto (lesson 6) and there's a short section and I think what I'm having trouble with is when they're relatives.

Some examples they show are:

Ni me komprenas tion, kion vi diras.
- I don't understand what you are saying (that which you say).

Sxi estas tiel bela, kiel la patrino.
- She is as beautiful as her mother.

Mi acxetis tiom, kiom mi bezonis.
- I bought as many (or as much) as I needed.

Again, I can understand the meaning of each correlative separately but it's confusing me how they are used in pairs like these examples. I tried searching on the forum and site but I could only find information about how to "build" correlatives from the table.
Any information or advice is much appreciated!

nornen (نمایش مشخصات) 15 نوامبر 2014،‏ 9:47:21

As you can see in your examples, the matching pairs have the same ending, but a different beginning: tio-kio, tiel-kiel, tiom-kiom.

A rough rule of thumb is: Use the same ending in the antecedent and the anaphor. Use t- with the antecedent and k- with the anaphor. This should work like 95% of the time.

Mi trovis vin tie, kie mi supozis.

tie = antecedent = t-
-ie for local

kie = anaphor = k-
-ie copied from its antecedent

same for
-iel (manner)
-iam (time)
-ial (reason)
-iu (concrete thing)
-io (abstract thing)
-iom (measure)
-a (quality)
-es (genitive)

sergejm (نمایش مشخصات) 15 نوامبر 2014،‏ 12:00:00

The first word in the pair may begin not only by t-, but also by ĉ-, nen- etc:
Mi aĉetis ĉion, kion mi bezonis.
Mi aĉetis nenion, kion mi bezonis.
Mi aĉetis ion, kion mi bezonis.
The endings, in common, are the same, but may be in different cases:
Tio, kion mi bezonis, jam estis vendita.
Mi aĉetos ĉe tiu vendisto, kies varoj estas plej malmultekostaj.
Fiŝo naĝas tien, kie estas pli profunde.
You can get place and time by 'tiu loko' and 'tiu tempo' etc:
Mi loĝas en tiu urbo, kie mi naskiĝis.
Tiumonate, kiam ...

kaŝperanto (نمایش مشخصات) 17 نوامبر 2014،‏ 18:49:19

One thing that may help you understand the usage is that these correlatives are either the subject or the object of a complete thought. In the example "Mi acxetis tion, kion mi bezonis" you have "Mi acxetis tion" and "kion mi bezonis", where both correlatives are the objects of a verb, and therefore get an accusative.

You can also have "Mi acxetis tion, kio placxas al mi", where the second correlative is the subject.

These constructions are a bit more precise than English is a lot of the time, so they take some getting used to. A lot of the battle is using the correct correlative pair for the situation.

amigueo (نمایش مشخصات) 18 نوامبر 2014،‏ 13:34:32

is about correlatives that i posted "kien kial kverelo?" en konsultejo, but reactions are lazy to appear.

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