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acute triangle

ya dvs1, 16 Novemba 2014

Ujumbe: 7

Lugha: English

dvs1 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Novemba 2014 1:09:10 alasiri

"La altocentro kuŝas en la triangulo kaj la altoj ĉiuj kuŝas en la triangulo se kaj nur se la triangulo estas ne malakuta (kio estas ke ĝi ne havas angulon pli grandan ol orto)."
(source)

"...if and only if the triangle is not inverse-acute [obtuse]..."

The programmer in me wants to fix this sentence. ;p
Is there a problem with phrasing it as: "...triangulo estas akuta..."?

disgustus (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Novemba 2014 1:17:49 alasiri

"La altocentro kuŝas en la triangulo kaj la altoj ĉiuj kuŝas en la triangulo ekskuzive malakuta."

It seems like the translation is getting hung up on a word-by-word interpretation of the English, so to get past that you can keep the essence of the translation by skipping past the "if and only if" and rewording it as a firmly-stated exclusion. That's what I would do, anyway.

Clarence666 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Novemba 2014 2:43:53 alasiri

dvs1:Is there a problem with phrasing it as: "...triangulo estas akuta..."?
Yes, there IS a problem with your proposal.

Jes, problemo ekzistas ene de via propono.

(2) ne estas malakuta <> (3) estas akuta

Kial? Ortangula triangulo konformas al difino (2) sed ne konformas al difino (3).

Why? Right triangle matches the definition (2) but not the definition (3).

Krom tio, Vikipedio uzas terminon "obtuzangula triangulo" anstataux "malakuta triangulo". Kiel kutime, Vikipedio malmulte helpas trovi gxustajn vortojn. Cxu ekzistas bona matematika terminaro en EO?

nornen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Novemba 2014 3:19:51 alasiri

Clarence666:
dvs1:Is there a problem with phrasing it as: "...triangulo estas akuta..."?
Yes, there IS a problem with your proposal.

Jes, problemo ekzistas ene de via propono.

(2) ne estas malakuta <> (3) estas akuta

Kial? Ortangula triangulo konformas al difino (2) sed ne konformas al difino (3).

Why? Right triangle matches the definition (2) but not the definition (3).

Krom tio, Vikipedio uzas terminon "obtuzangula triangulo" anstataux "malakuta triangulo". Kiel kutime, Vikipedio malmulte helpas trovi gxustajn vortojn. Cxu ekzistas bona matematika terminaro en EO?
+1. "x > 90" is not the same as "x >= 90".

bartlett22183 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 16 Novemba 2014 7:53:42 alasiri

I am not sufficiently adept with esperantic mathematical terminology to weigh in on this particular topic, but I think it is excellent that people are doing so. In the first third of the twentieth century, there was a periodical Schola et Vita written entirely in the original language called Interlingua, also known, more commonly today, as Latino sine Flexione. Over three thousand pages were published in the lifetime of the magazine (I have had access to many of them), and only a small portion were dedicated to discussion of the language itself. Considering that Giuseppe Peano was himself a world class mathematician, this is not surprising.

So often in international auxiliary language circles, so much time, effort, and (virtual) ink are expended discussing the languages themselves as things in themselves, rather than using the languages to discuss meaningful topics in the world or, in instances like this thread, how to do so properly in order to discuss the world, and not just prattle on about the language itself.

dvs1 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 17 Novemba 2014 6:14:24 alasiri

Thanks y'all :-]

Clarence666:
dvs1:Is there a problem with phrasing it as: "...triangulo estas akuta..."?
(2) ne estas malakuta <> (3) estas akuta

Right triangle matches the definition (2) but not the definition (3).
This helped me see that there is an issue that is not specific to one language.
In my mind "lies in" implies the sides of the triangle form a boundary
for something to lie in or out of.
This means In and Out are part of a trinary system
regarding the triangle and its orthocenter.
In = acute
Part of the boundary = right
Out = obtuse
Therefore the orthocenter and all altitudes
lie in the triangle if and only if it is acute;
because the orthocenter of a right triangle is a point on the boundary.
Changing "lies in" to "lies on" allows for the proper expression of the article's theorm;
because then we can think of the triangle as a solid surface, which includes the sides.

A new suggested revision:
The orthocenter and all altitudes lie on the triangle if and only if it is not obtuse.
La altocentro kaj ĉiuj altoj kuŝas sur la triangulo se kaj nur se ĝi ne estas malakuta.

Let me know what you think and if something can be improved.
:-]

dvs1 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 17 Novemba 2014 6:19:32 alasiri

disgustus:"La altocentro kuŝas en la triangulo kaj la altoj ĉiuj kuŝas en la triangulo ekskuzive malakuta."
I like the idea, I think... Does "ekskluzive malakuta" mean "exclusively obtuse"?

We would want 'exclusively not obtuse'. How about:
La altocentro kaj ĉiuj altoj kuŝas sur la triangulo ekskluzive ne malakuta.

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