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Co-Relatives

від bobbob27, 16 листопада 2014 р.

Повідомлення: 9

Мова: English

bobbob27 (Переглянути профіль) 16 листопада 2014 р. 17:39:47

Which is correct when you want to use a relative pronoun?
I want to say "Don't forget what I said"

Ne forgesu, kion mi diris. or Ne forgesu tion, kion mi diris.

nornen (Переглянути профіль) 16 листопада 2014 р. 23:19:31

Both are correct. It is OK and quite common to drop the antecedent.

bartlett22183 (Переглянути профіль) 17 листопада 2014 р. 17:52:02

You are right, it may be quite common to elide the antecedent, but I question the wisdom of doing so. To some extent, if not completely, the (cor)relative pronouns in Esperanto largely follow Indo-European usage, which may be confusing or puzzling to non-IE speakers (just as it is a possibly confusing feature of some IE languages to conflate relative and interrogative pronouns). I suggest that in the interest of more international understanding, speakers / writers not elide pronouns in Esperanto usage.

DuckFiasco (Переглянути профіль) 17 листопада 2014 р. 18:24:23

AFAIK you can only do that if the endings are the same. That is, if one is accusative and one isn't, you need both: Mi ne multe scias pri tio, kion vi diris. Not "pri *kion vi diris".

nornen (Переглянути профіль) 19 листопада 2014 р. 02:23:36

DuckFiasco:AFAIK you can only do that if the endings are the same. That is, if one is accusative and one isn't, you need both: Mi ne multe scias pri tio, kion vi diris. Not "pri *kion vi diris".
Where do you deduce this from? I don't see any problem with your example.

Searching the tekstaro you can find:
Reviviĝinte, li informis pri kion li vidis tie.

Nephihaha (Переглянути профіль) 25 листопада 2014 р. 00:02:01

Sorry guys but all this stuff about anaphors and antecedents hardly sells the idea that Esperanto is very easy to learn!

What's the best, jargon free, way of learning these correlatives?

Am going to use cards, but there's quite a few of them.

I feel if I crack these I'll be most of the way towards using the language... but linguistic terminology is just another layer I'm not interested in.

malglatamelo (Переглянути профіль) 25 листопада 2014 р. 00:04:50

Nephihaha:Sorry guys but all this stuff about anaphors and antecedents hardly sells the idea that Esperanto is very easy to learn!

What's the best, jargon free, way of learning these correlatives?

Am going to use cards, but there's quite a few of them.

I feel if I crack these I'll be most of the way towards using the language... but linguistic terminology is just another layer I'm not interested in.
I concentrated on mastering the k- words simply through practice and (forced) usage. After that the other ones came easily enough.

nornen (Переглянути профіль) 25 листопада 2014 р. 00:39:01

Nephihaha:What's the best, jargon free, way of learning these correlatives?
Learn them by heart.

bartlett22183 (Переглянути профіль) 25 листопада 2014 р. 19:55:37

That is why, again, I think it is best not to drop pronouns. If everybody follows the same practice, rather than following the practice of her/his native language, everything is easier for everyone. I think it is easier and simpler just to include the pronouns in relative constructions than to drop them in certain (but which???) circumstances with the hope that others will understand. Let's keep things as simple as possible. Esperanto is suppose to facilitate communication among people of dissimilar natlangs, not present puzzles to be decoded.

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