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Speaking in other languages

od Sollidified, 09. december 2014

Sporočila: 6

Jezik: English

Sollidified (Prikaži profil) 09. december 2014 01:02:46

I've been learning esperanto for a week or two now, ( The most advanced phrase that I can say so far is, "Mia esperanton estas tre malbone" ) and I've been wondering. How would I speak to people in other languages? And by that, I mean would I speak to other people how I speak to people in english? Would I translate phrases that I use, and etc.

drsarvo1971 (Prikaži profil) 09. december 2014 01:25:28

Bonvenon! As everything in the world, practice makes perfect. You can talk in other languages about your hobbies, readings, favorite movies, etc, just the same way you do in English.

makis (Prikaži profil) 09. december 2014 02:36:26

Sollidified:And by that, I mean would I speak to other people how I speak to people in english? Would I translate phrases that I use, and etc.
I tried doing that at first and found that it wasn't working so well. But you learn. English has a lot of idioms and most don't make sense when you think about it. Plus there are different meanings of word that english uses that we don't realize.

But don't worry about that. The best way to learn is to start using the language. Pop into the instant messenger (tujmesaĝilo, on the right hand side here), use twitter, start a blog, or, heck, start doing some translations of your favorite writings. It's going to be awkward and probably take a long time, but it'll do you good. Just say "Saluton. Mi estas komencanto. Mi deziras plibonigi mian esperanton!". ridulo.gif

kaŝperanto (Prikaži profil) 09. december 2014 17:07:32

Sollidified:I've been learning esperanto for a week or two now, ( The most advanced phrase that I can say so far is, "Mia esperanton estas tre malbone" ) and I've been wondering. How would I speak to people in other languages? And by that, I mean would I speak to other people how I speak to people in english? Would I translate phrases that I use, and etc.
Practice practice practice. The more time you put into it the more likely you are to become "fluent" as you describe. It is a strange feeling when you first realize you're talking/thinking in a different language. However, the WORST thing you can do is to try and translate word-for-word the phrases that you use. For example, "I'm going to the store" is not translated as "Mi irantas al la vendejo", even though most speakers who know English will understand what you're trying to say. The "Esperantic" way to say that is "Mi iras al vendejo", or if you're really cool "Mi iras vendejen."

As you learn the language these things become common sense, or something close to it. I enjoy finding that Esperanto has easier ways to think or talk about something, like "Lunde mi iros al vendejo" => "On Monday I will go to the store", or "Cxiumatene mi kuras 5 mejlojn." => "Every morning I run 5 miles" (a lie okulumo.gif )
Another nice feature is turning a word into a verb that doesn't exist in english, like "La cxielo bluas" => "The sky is blue."

For the most part you will speak to other people like you do in English; you have an idea and you use a language to represent that idea for others. It takes a while to get to that point, but I think it's worth it. I studied Spanish for years in school and never got there, despite knowing the full grammar with all of the irregular verb conjugations, etc.

You're just starting, so don't feel discouraged. The amount of progress you make initially is very large, and if you put the time in you'll be reading full-blown Esperanto with the help of a dictionary in no time (vocabulary seems to lag behind grammar ability for most people, myself included). Start reading Esperanto ASAP, and participate in the forums as much as you can, even if it only means reading posts at first. Actually using the language is the quickest path to mastering it.

Also, don't be discouraged, but your sentence should be "Mia esperanto estas tre malbona." or more directly "Mi ne parolas esperanton bone." (the phrase vs. meaning issue again; has that esperanto been misbehaving again? What do you really mean with "your esperanto is bad?) okulumo.gif

marbuljon (Prikaži profil) 09. december 2014 23:30:21

(Sorry I'm not being more helpful, I'm realllllly tired right now... maybe I will have better help in the morning.)

The first point, like someone mentioned, is you have to think about the meaning and not the words of what you are saying.

For example, "black magic" does not mean "black (colour) magic". It means evil magic, magic used for bad stuff, non-noble magic, attack (versus healing) magic. But a lot of people will translate blindly and say "malblanka magio" instead of "fimagio" or something else a bit more fitting. This gets easier as you use another language more, but I have seen people who still make mistakes on this despite seemingly knowing Esperanto for years, because they just don't think about it.

That's honestly the biggest barrier to understanding. You can mess up word order, you can mess up grammar, but when you clearly mess up the meaning of the word you wanted to use then it does become incomprehensible for some people - people who know the same language as you and know where you're coming from will still understand you but someone else won't. Also take care that YOU don't mis-assume things too, ex. one post on the internet said something like "she said 'purple fruit' so i thought 'grape' then found out later i was wrong". no, if it says purple fruit it's simply a purple fruit, don't assume. likewise if you say something vague, don't assume the other person knows exactly what you mean.

So for example, "He kicked the bucket" you can't just translate directly. But there are a lot of phrases and sayings that do make perfect sense to translate directly because they're more literal, ex. "he steeled his heart" is something people can understand even if they haven't heard the phrase before. just think about "would a little kid understand the meaning of this?" and it gets a bit easier. likewise in 1930's slang like "that bird sure can sing!", we know from context that it's a singer (person) and not an actual bird. while i don't recommend using slang like that in esperanto, it's just an example of what you might be able to get away with.

Word order you can have practically just the same as in English. But feel free to experiment ; D

Also remember that cultures are different. For example, in Sweden we don't say "How are you?" every time we meet or talk, but Americans do. (We only say it if ex you were sick the last time we talked.) So often for a Swede, being asked "How are you?" all the time feels very strange, they don't quite know how to reply and the conversation suddenly feels strained to them. Or, maybe someone finds it offensive if you ask how old they are or if they're married. I doubt anyone would say much about it, especially in Esperantoland where people understand these things, but just keep it in mind.

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 10. december 2014 11:34:23

How would I speak to people in other languages? And by that, I mean would I speak to other people how I speak to people in English?
In many instances, a literal translation using the same structure can be used.

For example, if I want to ask where where the railway station is, in many languages, and in Esperanto, you can use the formula (word for where) + (word for is) + (word for the) + (word for railway station).

The problem is that this simple transposing does not always work. To know when you can't do this, you have to learn how the target language works (it's a different system).

To translate 'Do you know what this word means' into Esperanto you have to know how to form Yes/No questions in Esperanto, and that Esperanto flags the object in the sentence, in order to arrive at Ĉu vi scias kion signifas ĉi tiu vorto.

However working through a basic course in Esperanto will give you most of what you need, and surprisingly quickly.

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