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"in" always necessary?

de KetchupSoldier, 13 de dezembro de 2014

Mensagens: 7

Idioma: English

KetchupSoldier (Mostrar o perfil) 13 de dezembro de 2014 20:01:38

I made my first post in Esperanto on italki today ("Notebook" posts are public and are meant to be writing practice where speakers of your target language can correct you) and a couple of times referred to myself as an "eterna komencanto". The person who corrected me changed it to "komencantino".

It got me thinking... I know sometimes the feminine suffix is important, like distinguishing between "patro" and "patrino," but I didn't think it was essential to feminize every label attached to me just because I'm a woman. I thought words like "komencanto" could be masculine or gender-neutral. Was I mistaken?

Kirilo81 (Mostrar o perfil) 13 de dezembro de 2014 20:14:38

No, you're right. With the exception of kinship terms and noble titles (+knabo, + sinjoro), the -in- is optional, as the basic roots are neutral.

Christa627 (Mostrar o perfil) 13 de dezembro de 2014 20:28:05

KetchupSoldier:I made my first post in Esperanto on italki today ("Notebook" posts are public and are meant to be writing practice where speakers of your target language can correct you) and a couple of times referred to myself as an "eterna komencanto". The person who corrected me changed it to "komencantino".

It got me thinking... I know sometimes the feminine suffix is important, like distinguishing between "patro" and "patrino," but I didn't think it was essential to feminize every label attached to me just because I'm a woman. I thought words like "komencanto" could be masculine or gender-neutral. Was I mistaken?
I also do not feel any need to feminize every word I refer to myself as; I call myself an "Esperantisto" more often than "Esperantistino".

Some words are male-specific, such as "viro," "knabo," and "bubo." There doesn't seem to be unanimity on whether "-ulo" is male by default or not. I am a "junulino," but would calling me a "junulo" be incorrect? I don't know.

But most words are neutral (whether they were in Zamenhof's time or not, they are now), including noun participles such as "-anto" and "-ito."

By the way, what's italki? I am a user of Lang-8, where one makes entries in the target language, and people can correct them; is italki similar?

KetchupSoldier (Mostrar o perfil) 13 de dezembro de 2014 20:29:00

Kirilo81:No, you're right. With the exception of kinship terms and noble titles (+knabo, + sinjoro), the -in- is optional, as the basic roots are neutral.
Okay, I'd thought so. Thank you!

KetchupSoldier (Mostrar o perfil) 13 de dezembro de 2014 20:35:56

Christa627:By the way, what's italki? I am a user of Lang-8, where one makes entries in the target language, and people can correct them; is italki similar?
italki is mostly for linking people with tutors and partners to practice their target languages over Skype, but the Notebook feature is specific for writing practice. I signed up to meet fellow Esperantists with whom to practice, and when I'm not in school anymore I might become a private tutor (the site helps people become paid private teachers, which is neat).

marbuljon (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2014 10:09:49

From my understanding, it's that the rule was still the same in Zamenhof's time (-ino is for emphasis except in special cases) but people found it more important/polite to point out the female gender back then, so they just used it more often. Same as how politeness in general is more dead now (in the "tip-my-hat-and-sign-letters-as-your-loyal-servant" way : P ).

So regarding "I am a "junulino," but would calling me a "junulo" be incorrect?", I don't think it would be incorrect at all. But "virjunulo" would be.

I think some people just either got misinformation or come from languages where you always have to point out the explicit gender of the person, so it confuses them.

Kirilo81 (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2014 13:34:55

Yes, this is an important addition, the suffixoids -an-, -estr-, -ist-, -ul- and the participle nouns are neutral, too.

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