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-on vs -u

de deltasalmon, 6 de gener de 2015

Missatges: 7

Llengua: English

deltasalmon (Mostra el perfil) 6 de gener de 2015 14.14.16

Saluton!

I'm new to this forum and new to Esperanto so sorry if this is an obvious question.

My first Esperanto "study guide" was the phrases on this website: http://omniglot.com/language/phrases/esperanto.php

After reading about grammar I was confused about some of the phrases that end in -on which I thought was the accusative noun ending.

Saluton / Helpon / Dankon.

My guess is that these phrases are abbreviated for longer ones like "Mi bezonas helpon" => "Helpon". Would "helpu" have the same meaning?

robbkvasnak (Mostra el perfil) 6 de gener de 2015 16.02.06

Both would be correct. "Helpu" is the imperative form of the verb "helpi" and "helpon" is the objective case for the noun "helpo" - in this case short for "Donu al mi helpon!" Language is not nath - it is a reflection of the thinking, creative human brain seeking a meaning for reality in a world that we have not yet fully grasped. That is part of the miracle of our humanity.

Fenris_kcf (Mostra el perfil) 6 de gener de 2015 16.02.24

That depends on who is the actor and who the receiver of the action, of course. You can not replace "dankon" with "danku" or "saluton" with "salutu".

Mustelvulpo (Mostra el perfil) 8 de gener de 2015 19.26.28

Helpu is the imperative / volitive form of help used as a verb.

Imperative- Helpu min!- Help me!

Volitive- Mi volas ke vi helpu min.- I want you to help me.

Helpon is the accusative form of help used as a noun

Mi bezonas vian helpon.- I need your help.

Nephihaha (Mostra el perfil) 11 de gener de 2015 11.42.49

deltasalmon:Saluton!

I'm new to this forum and new to Esperanto so sorry if this is an obvious question.

My first Esperanto "study guide" was the phrases on this website: http://omniglot.com/language/phrases/esperanto.php

After reading about grammar I was confused about some of the phrases that end in -on which I thought was the accusative noun ending.

Saluton / Helpon / Dankon.

My guess is that these phrases are abbreviated for longer ones like "Mi bezonas helpon" => "Helpon".
Exactly.

English does this occasionally e.g. please for "if it pleases you"; "howdy" for "how do you do"; ta or thanks for "(I) thank you" etc.

sudanglo (Mostra el perfil) 14 de gener de 2015 14.00.16

Whilst the accusative in such expressions as helpon, bonan matenon, saluton, bonan vojaĝon, sufiĉon!, dankon, pardonon etc is commonly explained in terms of a truncation of a longer sentence, it is not possible to say what that sentence is - only to suggest plausible candidates.

On the other hand, a universal term to describe this function of the accusative marker is difficult to find. The accusative of declaration?

If I were in a cinema and saw smoke, then, in the extremely unlikely event that all the patrons were Esperantists, I would be tempted to call out Fajron! (not Fajro).

On the other hand I think I would say Bona ideo! (not bonan ideon) on hearing a suggestion I liked. Yet playing a game with children in the car on a long drive, I would expect one of them to call out Flavan Aŭton! Mi gajnis.

I suppose that what the accusative is doing here is indicating that the idea is in some way complete in itself, whereas a nominative would open up the idea of further qualification.

In general, all the various uses of the accusative add meaning, and direct attention to the topic in a different way.

Rugxdoma (Mostra el perfil) 15 de gener de 2015 12.19.19

sudanglo:I suppose that what the accusative is doing here is indicating that the idea is in some way complete in itself, whereas a nominative would open up the idea of further qualification.
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