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-on vs -u

של deltasalmon, 6 בינואר 2015

הודעות: 7

שפה: English

deltasalmon (הצגת פרופיל) 6 בינואר 2015, 14:14:16

Saluton!

I'm new to this forum and new to Esperanto so sorry if this is an obvious question.

My first Esperanto "study guide" was the phrases on this website: http://omniglot.com/language/phrases/esperanto.php

After reading about grammar I was confused about some of the phrases that end in -on which I thought was the accusative noun ending.

Saluton / Helpon / Dankon.

My guess is that these phrases are abbreviated for longer ones like "Mi bezonas helpon" => "Helpon". Would "helpu" have the same meaning?

robbkvasnak (הצגת פרופיל) 6 בינואר 2015, 16:02:06

Both would be correct. "Helpu" is the imperative form of the verb "helpi" and "helpon" is the objective case for the noun "helpo" - in this case short for "Donu al mi helpon!" Language is not nath - it is a reflection of the thinking, creative human brain seeking a meaning for reality in a world that we have not yet fully grasped. That is part of the miracle of our humanity.

Fenris_kcf (הצגת פרופיל) 6 בינואר 2015, 16:02:24

That depends on who is the actor and who the receiver of the action, of course. You can not replace "dankon" with "danku" or "saluton" with "salutu".

Mustelvulpo (הצגת פרופיל) 8 בינואר 2015, 19:26:28

Helpu is the imperative / volitive form of help used as a verb.

Imperative- Helpu min!- Help me!

Volitive- Mi volas ke vi helpu min.- I want you to help me.

Helpon is the accusative form of help used as a noun

Mi bezonas vian helpon.- I need your help.

Nephihaha (הצגת פרופיל) 11 בינואר 2015, 11:42:49

deltasalmon:Saluton!

I'm new to this forum and new to Esperanto so sorry if this is an obvious question.

My first Esperanto "study guide" was the phrases on this website: http://omniglot.com/language/phrases/esperanto.php

After reading about grammar I was confused about some of the phrases that end in -on which I thought was the accusative noun ending.

Saluton / Helpon / Dankon.

My guess is that these phrases are abbreviated for longer ones like "Mi bezonas helpon" => "Helpon".
Exactly.

English does this occasionally e.g. please for "if it pleases you"; "howdy" for "how do you do"; ta or thanks for "(I) thank you" etc.

sudanglo (הצגת פרופיל) 14 בינואר 2015, 14:00:16

Whilst the accusative in such expressions as helpon, bonan matenon, saluton, bonan vojaĝon, sufiĉon!, dankon, pardonon etc is commonly explained in terms of a truncation of a longer sentence, it is not possible to say what that sentence is - only to suggest plausible candidates.

On the other hand, a universal term to describe this function of the accusative marker is difficult to find. The accusative of declaration?

If I were in a cinema and saw smoke, then, in the extremely unlikely event that all the patrons were Esperantists, I would be tempted to call out Fajron! (not Fajro).

On the other hand I think I would say Bona ideo! (not bonan ideon) on hearing a suggestion I liked. Yet playing a game with children in the car on a long drive, I would expect one of them to call out Flavan Aŭton! Mi gajnis.

I suppose that what the accusative is doing here is indicating that the idea is in some way complete in itself, whereas a nominative would open up the idea of further qualification.

In general, all the various uses of the accusative add meaning, and direct attention to the topic in a different way.

Rugxdoma (הצגת פרופיל) 15 בינואר 2015, 12:19:19

sudanglo:I suppose that what the accusative is doing here is indicating that the idea is in some way complete in itself, whereas a nominative would open up the idea of further qualification.
+ 1

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