I didn't realize that Esperanto had a case system, I thought it was a "simple language"
well I may as well face my fears and go learn it...

How do cases work? Its just something my mind has trouble processing...

Interesting - you write in English and I am sure that you use some cases, for example "this message's meaning" (message's is a possessive, Genitive case - It shocks me - me is an object, an accusative.

Turon:How do cases work?

A case is a feature which is assigned (most of the time) to a noun (or a phrase thereof).
Which case is assigned to a noun depends generally on the syntactic or semantic role this noun plays in an utterance.

Here you can find a short introduction to the topic.

There is nothing challenging about cases per se. In natural languages, the main difficulty in cases is mainly the inability to generalise on perceived patterns - due to a multitude of declensions, irregular and non-literal (e.g., idiomatic) use of cases, etc. None of this baggage is present in Esperanto.

To master Esperanto's case system, which in fact requires learning only the accusative case, one needs to understand two simple grammatical concepts which are not always made explicit in English: 1) the direct object; and 2) direction (e.g., being able to distinguish between "where" as in, "in what location", from "to what location" ). By familiarising yourself with these two concepts, you should have little difficulty in determining where the accusative is appropriate.

Many beginners, and especially English-speakers, are initially disappointed to see that Esperanto has a "case system", but I think once they get over the initial (small) hurdle of the accusative, they see that it opens up a whole new world of flexibility and expressivity that would be unattainable if Esperanto were totally caseless.

Tempodivalse:...Many beginners, and especially English-speakers, are initially disappointed to see that Esperanto has a "case system", but I think once they get over the initial (small) hurdle of the accusative, they see that it opens up a whole new world of flexibility and expressivity that would be unattainable if Esperanto were totally caseless.

Agreed. Additionally, Esperanto has just one case, not 17. In learning Esperanto, you can be introduced to the idea of cases so that later if you want to learn for example Russian or German, four cases is not so daunting.

It really is such a pity that most people don't study first their mother tongues before attempting to learn a foreign language. I wonder when the education system will change for the better :'(. Turon, you can identify all cases/declensions in all languages even if they're not morphologically marked. I strongly suggest you to study your mother tongue, and only after you have learnt how to do a syntactic analysis should you study a foreign language. Learn how to identify direct object, indirect object, locative, instrumental, transitive and intransitive verbs, subordinate clauses, subjunctive and indicative mood, and learn the difference between adjectives and adverbs. Trust me, when you know how to properly break down an English sentence not only will dictionaries suddenly become the best lovers, but also foreign languages will now be a lot easier to learn than before. If you have time, also learn IPA (international phonetic alphabet), that will allow you to understand much better the sounds of any language.

Suzumiya:I strongly suggest you to study your mother tongue, and only after you have learnt how to do a syntactic analysis should you study a foreign language.

I have to strongly disagree. Don't get me wrong, knowing that stuff in your own language can help when learning a new language, but I think suggesting you only start learning a new language when you've learned syntactic analysis sounds like a really good way of seriously discouraging people from learning new languages, which would be rather sad.

Turon: cases seem confusing at first, but as others have said, if you speak English, you use them all the time, you just don't realise it.

It is most obvious IMO with personal pronouns. I talk to you - you talk to me. I is nominative (it's the person doing the verb). Me is accusative (it's the person the verb is being done to. That's why we don't say "you talk to I"! She talks to her - not she talks to she. Or she talks to him - never to he. We talk to them - they talk to us. You use these constructions all the time, you almost certainly know instinctively the difference between we/us, he/him, she/her, and so on, even if you don't know you know. So don't panic!

Don't be scared of cases: I studied Russian ab initio at university. In my first class, the teacher said something along the lines of, so, I assume you've all learned German or Latin, and you know what cases are, yes? Everyone but me nodded sagely. She said, oh, don't worry, you'll pick it up.

Yikes! I had no idea what cases were, never mind how to use them. I'd pick it up? Was she kidding?

However, I did, despite the fact that at the time my formal knowledge of grammar was:

verbs are doing words
nouns are naming words
adjectives are describing words

Russian has six cases, by the way, not to mention three genders. I survived!

Is it good to understand what you're doing and be fully aware of various cases and how they work? Sure. Is it vital? Hell no. I know, 'cause I've been there. I lesrned to love them, but I was very confused for a good while, and given the nature of the course, no one was about to slow down and explain to me. I got there eventually! It would've been nice to know beforehand, but it wasn't necessary.

You don't need to completely or even vaguely understand cases before you start to learn how to use them - especially in a language where there is only one.

In my experience, it's hard to explain the what and why and where of a case but you can use them (because you do, if you speak English) without necessarily understanding them, and as you use that case, you'll come to understand what it is. Learn by doing!

Good luck!

Thank you for putting that post together flootzavut!!!

As a beginner, I truly appreciate it!.

flootzavut:

Suzumiya:I strongly suggest you to study your mother tongue, and only after you have learnt how to do a syntactic analysis should you study a foreign language.

I have to strongly disagree. Don't get me wrong, knowing that stuff in your own language can help when learning a new language, but I think suggesting you only start learning a new language when you've learned syntactic analysis sounds like a really good way of seriously discouraging people from learning new languages, which would be rather sad.

Agreed. I remember hearing somewhere that it is impossible to properly study a system you are a part of. (Must've been a science class.) The idea that learning a foreign language should be put off until you fully understand the mechanics of your native tongue makes things unnecessarily difficult, because it can be very hard to analyze the nuts and bolts of something you know by rote. I learned more about English grammar from my high school German class than I did from all my previous years of English classes. You can learn far more by looking back at your native language from a foreign one than you can learn by having an English speaker teach English to an English speaker, in English.

Likewise with Esperanto. Esperanto has a number of features (much more regularized, of course) that English speakers use all the time without realizing it. Words like mamulo, pakaĵo, kunveni sound very similar to English equivalents (mammal, package, to convene), but suddenly have a much more transparent etymology in Esperanto. The case system is like that, too. English still marks that, more or less, in its pronouns, but not as regularly as the Esperanto "-n". Pairs like who/whom, he/him, they/them can offer a convenient memory aid for what that final nasal sound means, though.

flootzavut:

Suzumiya:I strongly suggest you to study your mother tongue, and only after you have learnt how to do a syntactic analysis should you study a foreign language.

I have to strongly disagree. Don't get me wrong, knowing that stuff in your own language can help when learning a new language, but I think suggesting you only start learning a new language when you've learned syntactic analysis sounds like a really good way of seriously discouraging people from learning new languages, which would be rather sad.

Turon: cases seem confusing at first, but as others have said, if you speak English, you use them all the time, you just don't realise it.

It is most obvious IMO with personal pronouns. I talk to you - you talk to me. I is nominative (it's the person doing the verb). Me is accusative (it's the person the verb is being done to. That's why we don't say "you talk to I"! She talks to her - not she talks to she. Or she talks to him - never to he. We talk to them - they talk to us. You use these constructions all the time, you almost certainly know instinctively the difference between we/us, he/him, she/her, and so on, even if you don't know you know. So don't panic!

Don't be scared of cases: I studied Russian ab initio at university. In my first class, the teacher said something along the lines of, so, I assume you've all learned German or Latin, and you know what cases are, yes? Everyone but me nodded sagely. She said, oh, don't worry, you'll pick it up.

Yikes! I had no idea what cases were, never mind how to use them. I'd pick it up? Was she kidding?

However, I did, despite the fact that at the time my formal knowledge of grammar was:

verbs are doing words
nouns are naming words
adjectives are describing words

Russian has six cases, by the way, not to mention three genders. I survived!

Is it good to understand what you're doing and be fully aware of various cases and how they work? Sure. Is it vital? Hell no. I know, 'cause I've been there. I lesrned to love them, but I was very confused for a good while, and given the nature of the course, no one was about to slow down and explain to me. I got there eventually! It would've been nice to know beforehand, but it wasn't necessary.

You don't need to completely or even vaguely understand cases before you start to learn how to use them - especially in a language where there is only one.

In my experience, it's hard to explain the what and why and where of a case but you can use them (because you do, if you speak English) without necessarily understanding them, and as you use that case, you'll come to understand what it is. Learn by doing!

Good luck!

I talk to you - you talk to me. I is nominative (it's the person doing the verb). Me is accusative (it's the person the verb is being done to.

I am sorry for posting on a death thread but I think that “me” is in the dative case. ”Talk” is an intransitive verb according to many famous dictionaries thus it cannot take a direct object or a noun in the accusative case. In “I spoke nonsense to him” I is in the nominative case, nonsense is in the accusative case “identified by word order in english” and him is in the dative case.