Following up on a link in a recent forum thread, I came across a formulation of the case against Esperanto, which I think puts it very neatly.

I quote: Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

The problem is how to address this argument, which based of fact rather than opinion (and probably representing the majority view) seems at first sight seem unassailable.

Other popular arguments pale into insignificance in comparison (and in any case leave room for counter argument). For example, that Esperanto is too Eurocentric, that it lacks culture, that it has unnecessary complications like the accusative and case agreement, that everybody speaks English, that a constructed language is unnatural, etc.

It is quite clear and has been from the very beginning that the major obstacle to the widespread adoption of Esperanto lies in the number of speakers. Solving that problem, of course deals with the second leg of case against Esperanto since with an greatly increased number of speakers any weirdness of the Esperanto speaking community would largely disappear - become diluted to the point of not being significant.

So the issue can be presented like this. What reason can be presented for learning Esperanto which does not depend on the current number of speakers - has force when the numbers of speakers is low?

sudanglo:Following up on a link in a recent forum thread, I came across a formulation of the case against Esperanto, which I think puts it very neatly.

I quote: Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

The problem is how to address this argument, which based of fact rather than opinion (and probably representing the majority view) seems at first sight seem unassailable.

Other popular arguments pale into insignificance in comparison (and in any case leave room for counter argument). For example, that Esperanto is too Eurocentric, that it lacks culture, that it has unnecessary complications like the accusative and case agreement, that everybody speaks English, that a constructed language is unnatural, etc.

It is quite clear and has been from the very beginning that the major obstacle to the widespread adoption of Esperanto lies in the number of speakers. Solving that problem, of course deals with the second leg of case against Esperanto since with an greatly increased number of speakers any weirdness of the Esperanto speaking community would largely disappear - become diluted to the point of not being significant.

So the issue can be presented like this. What reason can be presented for learning Esperanto which does not depend on the current number of speakers - has force when the numbers of speakers is low?

Esperanto is an elegant and rich language, easy to learn, belonging to no one and thus to everyone, which opens doors and minds for learners of it that would otherwise most probably remain sealed off from them forever. It is a language for poets, speakers and writers, but also for travelers, for scientists, for diplomats and adventurers who refuse to be denied access to experiences beyond their normal daily life. It is a communal treasure free for the taking, a gift that keeps on giving. Few speakers? What does that mean? Look around. The woods and towns are full of them. Odd people? Interested and interesting, yes, but odd? Hardly.

In my experience, people who call other people odd are often those who do not realize how odd they are themselves; when you stop to think about it, everyone is odd in one way or another. Although I do admit that some varieties of oddness are more obvious than others .

Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

The problem is how to address this argument, which based of fact rather than opinion (and probably representing the majority view) seems at first sight seem unassailable.

Well. My personal reaction to that statement would be, "So what?" Then again, my motivation for studying languages is not typical -- language learning, for me, is primarily an end in itself, based on aesthetic or creative appreciation, and isn't motivated so much by practicality or need. I suppose if you're looking for a language that will look good on your resume, or impress people, or give you access to large amounts of literature or Internet sites, EO isn't going to fit the bill well.

In any case, I think the propadeutic value of Esperanto, (which I can attest to by my own experience) if nothing else, makes learning the language worthwhile, and should be emphasised more by promoters.

sudanglo:
I quote: Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

This may sound snarky, but it's what I really think--MOST of the people who speak Esperanto are odd? Well, my response to that is a succinct---"SO WHAT?" Frankly, most of the people who speak Esperanto on anthying approaching an advance level are smart, too, and smart people often ARE different from the mainstream. I'm not saying that to toot my own horn, either--but it's just a fact.

Sincerely--look around--it is almost THE NORM this day and age for most people to follow the crowd and be herded around like sheep, to be manipulated into jumping onto bandwagons, and to not even think for oneself. I teach in a public high school---kids who actually use their heads, who can think and figure things out, who analyze and synthesize facts to reach conclusions, and who actually USE their HEADS are increasingly rare---and rare sometimes translates to "odd".

Like I said in the other thread---we Esperantists ARE a colorful bunch. Afterall, the movement (particulary beyond the basic level) is made up of the kind of people who would sit down and teach themselves a langauge out of a book or at a computer screen--most people aren't geared for that.

Do you have to be smart to learn Esperanto? Well, in a world where most people can get through high school and graduate not knowing the parts of speech (happens all the time), it sure looks that way. You also have to have the tenacity and motivation to stick with it, a sensitivity to what is customary usage, and the ability to wrap your brain around grammatical features that are quite different from English--that already leaves out a large chunk of the population. So I don't know---maybe being "odd" isn't so bad...in fact, it might just be a compliment.

.. is an elegant and rich language... which opens doors and minds for learners

Unfortunately JK, this argument could be used equally to persuade foreigners to learn English or English speakers to learn French.

I am sure that many Esperantists have been drawn to Esperanto because of features of the language itself. But it is not an argument that is going to lead to 50 million speakers.

We need an argument that addresses the concerns of our hypothetical objector head on.

sudanglo:I quote: Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

AD HOMINEM! *ahem* Sorry, I teach rhetoric to high schoolers, and pointing out informal fallacies is basically a reflex at this point.

All joking aside, this is a terrible, unfalsifiable argument and should be treated as such.

sudanglo:So the issue can be presented like this. What reason can be presented for learning Esperanto which does not depend on the current number of speakers - has force when the numbers of speakers is low?

I think Esperanto has a "real" problem, in the sense that it's not just about convincing people. That is, people rather sensibly choose not to learn it. I can't speak for everyone, but a chunk of why I learned it was for the sheer joy of learning Esperanto; not everyone delights in languages like I/we do.

The first problem is that learning Esperanto is hard. I know, it's easy by linguistic standards, but what does that really mean? Getting decent at it still takes a while and a good deal of dedication. Making it easier to learn IRL---and more social---would be a good first step. No, I don't know how to do that.

The second problem is that the Esperanto landscape is still relatively barren. Seriously, English speakers get American pop culture (not to mention the Brits and commonwealth!), access to the business world, a language you can easily travel on...Esperanto doesn't have anything that compares. Building that would make the language much more enticing. No, I don't know how to do that.

Of course, the reason these things are hard is because we don't have that many speakers...which brings us back to the fundamental problem. >.<

rikforto:

sudanglo:I quote: Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

AD HOMINEM! *ahem* Sorry, I teach rhetoric to high schoolers, and pointing out informal fallacies is basically a reflex at this point.

All joking aside, this is a terrible, unfalsifiable argument and should be treated as such.

It is ad hominem, but nevertheless a fact. Just take a look at the first page of the Vidpunktoj forum here on lernu.

Your first impression is: Oh, so this is a forum there are three groups:

• Westborough baptist church: [Enketo] kiuj estas la plej teruraj pekoj?, [Enketo] Leĝoj pri blasfemo, kial la kristanoj eniros la ĉielon sed la ateistoj ne?, etc
  
• Eastern european employees of different Ministries of Truth: Por kio Putin militprenis provincojn: Abĥaza, Sud-Oseta, Ĉednestra kaj Krimea?, Usono bezonas la militon., etc
  
• An interesting mix of both, i.e. christian warmongers: [Enketo] la okcidentaj atakoj al irako, sirio, libio, ktp. estis necesaj

I think just reading the titles of the hottest threads can be enough to scare away new members.

nornen:

rikforto:

sudanglo:I quote: Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

AD HOMINEM! *ahem* Sorry, I teach rhetoric to high schoolers, and pointing out informal fallacies is basically a reflex at this point.

All joking aside, this is a terrible, unfalsifiable argument and should be treated as such.

It is ad hominem, but nevertheless a fact. Just take a look at the first page of the Vidpunktoj forum here on lernu.

But lernu is not Esperanto. Actually most Esperantists I met in person are not active in the lernu forums. At least not to my knowledge.

rikforto:The second problem is that the Esperanto landscape is still relatively barren. Seriously, English speakers get American pop culture (not to mention the Brits and commonwealth!), access to the business world, a language you can easily travel on...Esperanto doesn't have anything that compares.

Well, related to the number of speakers Esperanto is doing quite well. It actually gave me access to a new culture. I made new friends (I mean real friends, not just facebookish friends), got to know new music. I traveled to countries, I probably would not have traveled to without having Esperanto. By now Esperanto became an everyday language to me.

That said, I agree that the Esperanto landscape needs to be more attractive and more diverse. That's what I am trying to contribute to. I make music, I am podcasting, I am editing Scienca Revuo. I am also doing a little bit of Esperanto teaching because in my oppinion Esperantists who contribute to the Esperanto landscape that is to be attractive to the rest of the world, should know the language well.

So if you want to attract people that are somewhat like yourself, so not odd in your eyes, do use Esperanto for things that you are interested in. Not just talk about Esperanto, talk in Esperanto. Start blogging, podcasting, write songs, make short videos, what ever your capabilities and interests are. Do it in Esperanto not about Esperanto.

johmue:

nornen:

rikforto:

sudanglo:I quote: Very few people speak it, and most of those that do are odd people.

AD HOMINEM! *ahem* Sorry, I teach rhetoric to high schoolers, and pointing out informal fallacies is basically a reflex at this point.

All joking aside, this is a terrible, unfalsifiable argument and should be treated as such.

It is ad hominem, but nevertheless a fact. Just take a look at the first page of the Vidpunktoj forum here on lernu.

But lernu is not Esperanto. Actually most Esperantists I met in person are not active in the lernu forums. At least not to my knowledge.

True. Thank you for pointing that out. I did a hasty generalization (yet another fallacy).

Maybe lernu is just the weirdo and fundamentalist magnet inside Esperantujo.
Actually I have never met another Esperanto speaker IRL. Rumors are there are 2 or 3 here in Guatemala, but I am not sure if they are still alive.
That's why I started to study Arabic. This language really has opened a new world to me. A world that has always existed right under my nose, but closed and unnoticed until right now. Arabs everywhere in Guatemala! They are quite a closed society, but the language is the crowbar to gently knock on the door of this society.
Esperanto unfortunately did not have the same effect.