Mensagens: 5
Idioma: English
Alkanadi (Mostrar o perfil) 8 de fevereiro de 2015 06:48:16
Also, which one of these would be preferable:
1- Aĉetu al mi biciklon
2- Aĉetu por mi biciklon
I was thinking that it is ...por mi... but then I was second guessing myself because this sentence sounds a bit funny:
Aĉetu por mi biciklon por Kristnasko
Matthieu (Mostrar o perfil) 8 de fevereiro de 2015 10:47:00
Alkanadi:If I say Aĉetu min biciklon then this doesn't make sense, right? Because Aĉetu min... means to purchase me as I would be the object that is purchased. Am I right about that?Correct, and also because you can't have two direct objects.
Alkanadi:Also, which one of these would be preferable:I would use both.
1- Aĉetu al mi biciklon
2- Aĉetu por mi biciklon
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 8 de fevereiro de 2015 11:29:17
If I say Aĉetu min biciklon then this doesn't make sense, right?Even though common sense allows us to work out that the object of aĉeti would have to be biciklon, such a double accusative is avoided in Esperanto.
A quick rummage in The Tekstaro shows that both 'por' and 'al' are used with aĉeti (which was my initial supposition) with perhaps 'por' being more frequent.
So the question becomes is there any difference in the usage, some nuance carried in the choice of preposition.
Reading through the Tekstaro hits, nothing obvious jumped out. In the Anderson Fabeloj we have for example:
... por persone aĉeti por si sian kandelon kaj fromaĝon
... kaj li ne povis eĉ aĉeti al si kandelon
We also have in the Fabeloj:
por havigi al si verdajn vestojn ne sole por somero, sed ankaŭ por vintro
so por Kristnasko seems fine.
Perhaps it would sound less funny to you if you re-ordered the sentence to
Por Kristnasko, aĉetu por mi biciklon.
Interestingly, Google translate renders Buy me a bicycle for Christmas as Aĉetu al mi biciklon por Kristnasko.
Tempodivalse (Mostrar o perfil) 8 de fevereiro de 2015 15:21:12
Aĉetu min biciklonWhile incorrect, I see these kinds of double accusatives pop up fairly often in spontaneous writing/speech, even among fairly proficient Esperantists, e.g., Diru min la veron. So don't be surprised. You'll not see this in "proper" texts, though.
This also happens where one of the accusatives is (otherwise legitimately) being used in a non-direct-object role, e.g., Ŝi ne vidis min unu jaron, which is technically OK, but often a stylistically bad choice due to possible confusion.
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 9 de fevereiro de 2015 13:14:26
Tempo:I see these kinds of double accusatives pop up fairly often in spontaneous writing/speech, even among fairly proficient EsperantistsTempo, you're hanging out with a rough crowd.
Of course, two accusatives can come together when they are
1. not attached to the same verb,
2. when they form a single direct object,
3. one is being used in non-direct object role.
1. Li petis min tion fari; Diru ĉion kion vi volas
2. Mi amas vin ĉiujn; Mi vidis la du fratojn, Petron kaj Paŭlon
3. Mi vidos vin mardon; Ŝi sendis ilin hejmen.