tommjames: Nobody in their right mind is going to think the Esperanto community is a bunch of deviants just because someone made a vaguely smutty song and sang it at a youth congress.

He's gotta point there.

-forigite-

I have been to Iceland and was very surprised to find that the Icelanders did not at all correspond to my stereotype of what they were supposed to be like. In fact, if you were to ask me today, what Icelanders are like, I could not really give a definition. The same goes for "Americans". There are so many variations.
There is a great TED talk (with excellent Esperanto subtitles) called "The Danger of the Single Story". Take a look at it:
https://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_adichie_the_d...
Then think about what a "typical Esperantist" is.

tommjames:You need to understand that not everybody is as prudish as you. In fact, I would say that in this day and age the perception of that song as 'disgusting' and 'dirty' would be the exception rather than the rule.

Well, Tommjames, I may, indeed be somewhat puritanical, but what I think YOU need to understand is that people still expect a modicum of respectability out in public, regardless of the standard to which they may hold themselves in private. Some people may "let it all hang out" in private, but a certain level of civility is still the norm when out in society. Decent people do not go out in public and act like ill-mannered slobs who can't figure out what is acceptable in polite company.

In any case if you really want Esperanto to "come out of the shadows" then it needs to be a real language that encompasses the full range of human expression.

Esperanto already does that. Is that even being discussed?

Again, Tommjames, the song was simply one example. The theme of this thread involved problems with Esperanto courses being offered--and I think we, as the Esperanto community, need to enthusiastically support such endeavors. I also mentioned humanitarian relief efforts, international business ventures, and the publication and use of practical information. The general perception of Esperanto is going to improve as we lean in that direction and let people start to see it as a viable means of uniting people for practical, down-to-earth beneficial purposes. THAT'S what we need to be showcasing and presenting to society.

robbkvasnak:I have been to Iceland and was very surprised to find that the Icelanders did not at all correspond to my stereotype of what they were supposed to be like. In fact, if you were to ask me today, what Icelanders are like, I could not really give a definition. The same goes for "Americans". There are so many variations.
There is a great TED talk (with excellent Esperanto subtitles) called "The Danger of the Single Story". Take a look at it:
https://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_adichie_the_d...
Then think about what a "typical Esperantist" is.

This was excellent! I truly enjoyed the talk. I pulled up the list of subtitles and could not find the Esperanto ones, however. Did I miss something while trying to find them? How did you get to them?

Polaris:

robbkvasnak:I have been to Iceland and was very surprised to find that the Icelanders did not at all correspond to my stereotype of what they were supposed to be like. In fact, if you were to ask me today, what Icelanders are like, I could not really give a definition. The same goes for "Americans". There are so many variations.
There is a great TED talk (with excellent Esperanto subtitles) called "The Danger of the Single Story". Take a look at it:
https://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_adichie_the_d...
Then think about what a "typical Esperantist" is.

This was excellent! I truly enjoyed the talk. I pulled up the list of subtitles and could not find the Esperanto ones, however. Did I miss something while trying to find them? How did you get to them?

The subtitle list has a scroll bar on the side; the languages are in alphabetical order.

This speech reminded me of my childhood; how all the Christmas stories, cards, and songs told of snowy Christmases. I grew up in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, where it never, in all the time I lived there, snowed on Christmas. I, although I had never experienced a "white Christmas", felt like Christmases were supposed to be snowy; that there was something wrong with rainy or just overcast ones, and I was troubled by this lack of Christmas snow. Later on this shifted to wondering why all these things portrayed white Christmases, when Christmases were never white? I had never been out of the Pacific Northwest, and it never occurred to me, that they might actually be white somewhere else! To this day, I've never seen a storybook, card, or song portray Christmastime weather as I knew it in Oregon; I wonder why not? Is it because it's not as romantic-sounding and photogenic? But overall, the Willamette Valley has the best climate I can imagine... but of course I'm biased.

I doubt any of the above is on-topic in any sense; it's just what I thought of when I listened to the talk.

And when it comes to understanding other countries and people, it is easier to get other sides of the story than the media will give you, when you speak Esperanto .

In regards to the homosexual discussion, it is true that before I got into Esperanto, I had never, as far as I know, directly communicated with any gay people. Not because I consciously avoided it; it just never happened. But now, having had this contact gives a human face to what had before been an abstraction. Not that that changes my position on the matter, but it does, I think, give me a better understanding of the issue.

Christa627:This speech reminded me of my childhood; how all the Christmas stories, cards, and songs told of snowy Christmases. I grew up in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, where it never, in all the time I lived there, snowed on Christmas. I, although I had never experienced a "white Christmas", felt like Christmases were supposed to be snowy; that there was something wrong with rainy or just overcast ones, and I was troubled by this lack of Christmas snow. Later on this shifted to wondering why all these things portrayed white Christmases, when Christmases were never white? I had never been out of the Pacific Northwest, and it never occurred to me, that they might actually be white somewhere else! To this day, I've never seen a storybook, card, or song portray Christmastime weather as I knew it in Oregon; I wonder why not? Is it because it's not as romantic-sounding and photogenic? But overall, the Willamette Valley has the best climate I can imagine... but of course I'm biased.

Well, I live in Tigard, a suburb of Portland, in the north Willamette Valley, and we do occasionally get a white Christmas. Just not very often. Not this year, for sure. But it's true, "A Wet Christmas" just isn't as photogenic, and that's what you mostly get here.

I grew up at the eastern end of the Columbia River Gorge, though, and we had plenty of white Christmases over there. Which makes me like it right here.

sudanglo:but what I think YOU need to understand is that people still expect a modicum of respectability out in public

I do understand that, and I hold to that standard myself. But I don't see where the problem is. I've never seen a group of Esperantists going around being "ill mannered slobs". Most Esperantists I've come across, be it in public or in private, have always been sufficiently well mannered and respectful. Maybe I've just been lucky?

Polaris:The theme of this thread involved problems with Esperanto courses being offered--and I think we, as the Esperanto community, need to enthusiastically support such endeavors. I also mentioned humanitarian relief efforts, international business ventures, and the publication and use of practical information. The general perception of Esperanto is going to improve as we lean in that direction and let people start to see it as a viable means of uniting people for practical, down-to-earth beneficial purposes. THAT'S what we need to be showcasing and presenting to society.

Also again: If you want that to happen, make it happen. Do you think "we" or what you call "the Esperanto community" – whatever that is – have been waiting for you to diagnose "the problem"? That's not the way "the Esperanto community" works. There is no "we" that is "showcasing" something. There are only individuals who do things, for example putting songs on youtube. Don't expect any of those individuals to care when you say "We should ... We need ...". Maybe some will join you if you say "I am doing ... Who wants to join?"

Esperanto is not a business with a public relation department taking care of Esperanto's public image. It's not a business at all. It's just a language and people spread over the world who are using it for a variety of purposes. If you want to influence Esperanto's public image, there's only one way to do it: Come up with what you call "showcases".