Grammar Question
ca, kivuye
Ubutumwa 6
ururimi: English
Altulo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 24 Ruhuhuma 2015 23:19:32
Dankon!
Tempodivalse (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 25 Ruhuhuma 2015 00:51:40
Altulo:Is it proper Esperanto to say "cxi-vespere" for "this evening?" Or would it be better to say "cxi tiun vesperon?"Ĉi-vespere is fine. Although you don't see these adverbial forms much in Zamenhof-era texts, they have become much more common in recent decades. I even prefer them, most of the time - they are more concise, and there is no danger of confusion if your sentence already contains another accusative nearby.
Dankon!
Altulo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 25 Ruhuhuma 2015 01:37:30
sudanglo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 25 Ruhuhuma 2015 11:17:36
The grammar of Esperanto permits both ĉi tiun vesperon and ĉi-vespere. You don't have to additionally learn which of these expressions a 'native' speaker would prefer.
In discussions in English on the current crisis in Greece, you will frequently hear a decision by the authorities as labelled as 'kicking the can down the road'.
If a foreign learner of English said 'kicking the tin down the street' (perfectly grammatical) the effect would be comic.
In Esperanto the choice between two grammatical expressions meaning the same thing is going to depend on rhetorical elegance, rather than on which is the favoured expression.
That said, explorations in the Tekstaro, suggest that the frequency of ĉi-time-word is higher than ĉi tiun time-word.
kaŝperanto (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 25 Ruhuhuma 2015 15:53:41
sudanglo:It could be argued that one of the ways in which Esperanto is 'easier' than national languages is that it is largely a language without clichés.That is one great feature of our language. I don't need to worry about the correctness of the expression so long as the sentence is grammatically correct.
The grammar of Esperanto permits both ĉi tiun vesperon and ĉi-vespere. You don't have to additionally learn which of these expressions a 'native' speaker would prefer.
In discussions in English on the current crisis in Greece, you will frequently hear a decision by the authorities as labelled as 'kicking the can down the road'.
If a foreign learner of English said 'kicking the tin down the street' (perfectly grammatical) the effect would be comic.
In Esperanto the choice between two grammatical expressions meaning the same thing is going to depend on rhetorical elegance, rather than on which is the favoured expression.
That said, explorations in the Tekstaro, suggest that the frequency of ĉi-time-word is higher than ĉi tiun time-word.
I recall a thread a while back where people translated colloquial sayings/proverbs into Esperanto, and it was quite entertaining to see which ones still made sense. I was also surprised how many had equivalent expressions in English, like "putting the cart before the horse". It would be interesting to start that thread up again.
One of my Spanish teachers made us learn some of the common phrases, and I recall "Hablando del re de Roma, y el mismo se asoma" (Speaking about the king of Rome, and that minute he appears).
sudanglo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruhuhuma 2015 11:10:50
I was also surprised how many had equivalent expressions in English, like "putting the cart before the horse"Of course, Esperanto also allows the use of metaphor or vivid imagery. With such expressions it is just a case of judging whether the logic is likely to be perceived by others.
It may be difficult for a speaker of another language to grasp the essence of 'it's not my cup of tea'.
But if you lokigas la ĉevalon malantaŭ la ĉaro* it is not too difficult to suss out that the intention is to express the idea that things have been put in the wrong order, or that cause and effect have been inverted.
Kiu sin enjungas devas tiri (Zamenhof)
Edit: *now I prefer Vi inversigis ĉaron kaj ĉevalon