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Eo in the English language forum?

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Ubutumwa 43

ururimi: English

sudanglo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 1 Ntwarante 2015 11:58:25

Richard: if someone understands enough English that a conversation here excites their interest, it seems a bit harsh to say that they can only contribute if their English is up to it. I'd rather have the opportunity to hear their ideas in Esperanto than force them to marshal their thoughts in English. Others have sung the praises of google translate's merits: surely there is no need to have a translation every time when it is just a click away.

I take Erinja's point about learners. ..... But the English forum isn't just for beginner's questions,
What can I say , but +1.

Incidentally there is no need for any burdensome micromanagement on the part of the admin. There is enough common sense, I am sure, among the Forum readers for them to see clearly when a reply in Esperanto would not help an anglalingvana beginner.

Incidentally, if the practice becomes that posting in Esperanto is always accompanied by a Google Translate version in English (with the inevitable errors), this may have the beneficial effect on any casual outside English speaking observer of creating the impression that English is not a suitable lingua franca.

We must surely preventing the assumption that the Esperantists so little believe in Esperanto that they use English in preference in international discussions. (Imagine what a malevolent journalist might make of it)

The facts are, that the country of origin of the poster is displayed in the Forum posts and in a typical discussion in the English Forum a high proportion of posts may come from ne-anglalingvaj landoj.

Sunjo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 1 Ntwarante 2015 13:51:47

RiotNrrd:But the English forum isn't just for beginner's questions,
sudanglo:We must surely preventing the assumption that the Esperantists so little believe in Esperanto that they use English in preference in international discussions. (Imagine what a malevolent journalist might make of it)
There is a simple solution. All forums in native languages should be just for beginner's questions, for practising Esperanto (translations) and for announcements that concern only speakers of this language.
No permission for crocodiling, no excuses to practise any other language than Esperanto on a page that is dedicated to Esperanto.

erinja (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 1 Ntwarante 2015 18:39:13

That would be lovely but it would simply be too hard to moderate. Even as it is, we discourage people from discussing topics that have nothing to do with Esperanto, in languages other than Esperanto (i.e. no discussion of US politics in English, but in Esperanto it's ok), and that's a tricky one to enforce.

There is no way on this planet that moderators are going to translate wrong-language posts. You can forget that. It's hard enough to get the site itself translated!

1Guy1 (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 1 Ntwarante 2015 19:30:32

I have often read 'Lernu should do this or that' in these forums. Sometimes with a sense of entitlement that is alarming and quite frankly, rude.

We should appreciate all the hard work that people have done to put Lernu here at all and (if the cap fits) make our suggestions a bit more gracefully.

Ursonano (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 1 Ntwarante 2015 23:04:39

erinja:There is no way on this planet that moderators are going to translate wrong-language posts. You can forget that. It's hard enough to get the site itself translated!
Fair enough.

1Guy1:I have often read 'Lernu should do this or that' in these forums. Sometimes with a sense of entitlement that is alarming and quite frankly, rude.

We should appreciate all the hard work that people have done to put Lernu here at all and (if the cap fits) make our suggestions a bit more gracefully.
I didn't feel like my suggestion was being rude or entitled, but please pardon me.
I meant to be optimistic, but I'm sorry if it seems otherwise. I'm grateful for Lernu's presence, but I suppose I think from a mindset of how things could be rather than how they are.

Otherwise I don't feel like posts exclusively in Esperanto have a place in a board for English (or any other) topics. It's clear that not everybody present is going to be on the same level if they feel the need to communicate in their native language. There are exceptions, sure, but if any action is going to scare away a beginner, then perhaps it's best to consider refraining on behalf of the community.
And if an Esperantist can't help from commenting on the subject, there's nothing stopping them from creating a similar thread in the respective Eo board. That's not an unreasonable expectation.

joliepa (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 19 Ruheshi 2015 20:24:40

RiotNrrd:....No permission for crocodiling, no excuses to practise any other language than Esperanto on a page that is dedicated to Esperanto.
I don't want to bring back a contentious thread, but what is crocodiling!? that is a strange buzzword.

Venkistido (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 19 Ruheshi 2015 20:50:48

joliepa:
RiotNrrd:....No permission for crocodiling, no excuses to practise any other language than Esperanto on a page that is dedicated to Esperanto.
I don't want to bring back a contentious thread, but what is crocodiling!? that is a strange buzzword.
'Crocodiling' from the Esperanto 'krokodili' meaning to use one's native vernacular at an Esperanto event or other situation in which one would expect Esperanto to be the medium of communication.

Unless someone knows differently, the origins of this use are lost in the mists of (relative) antiquity...

"aligatori" is another one to note. i.e. chatting with an Esperantist in another natural language which is the native language of neither. I suspect his one is of more recent coinage.

RiotNrrd (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 19 Ruheshi 2015 20:51:42

joliepa:
RiotNrrd:....No permission for crocodiling, no excuses to practise any other language than Esperanto on a page that is dedicated to Esperanto.
I don't want to bring back a contentious thread, but what is crocodiling!? that is a strange buzzword.
Actually, that was a quote from Sunjo, not from me.

joliepa (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 19 Ruheshi 2015 22:47:25

so If I understand than the poll question is stated a little inaccurately. OF COURSE, this forum will contain some Esperanto- for it is the place where beginner Esperanto speakers (who are native English speakers) Should post until they are fully fleunt in Esperanto.

Jes, Cxe estas la locko kie popolo devi skribi cxu ili ne skribi flue en Esperanto.

of the question on whether fluent Esperanto writers should include an Esperanto word here or there because English is hard. English is a hard language! if you are a native English speaker- you can almost always figure out a word or so by context alone. In the spirit of making this a good place for a beginner; feel free to include whole Esperanto sentences- provided you translate the sentence...

that is my perspective as a beginner.

Miland (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 3 Mukakaro 2015 18:03:25

My understanding is that anyone who posts in Esperanto in the English-language forum should provide an accompanying English translation. That sounds very sensible to me, since beginners can compare the Esperanto with the English and so learn from it.

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