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Grammer

ya reza_k, 3 Machi 2015

Ujumbe: 9

Lugha: English

reza_k (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 4:50:06 alasiri

Hi everyone,

Is it correct to say "prenu la ŝafojn al la herbeja" while my intend is "take the sheeps to the grassland"?

Dankon.

nornen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 4:54:34 alasiri

"Preni" sounds strange here. "preni" means to take something into the hand, to grab something, not to take something to another place.
"herbejo" must be a noun ending in -o. I personally would use an accusative of direction for "to the grassland".

Gvidu la ŝafojn al la herbejo.
Gvidu la ŝafojn sur la herbejon.
Gvidu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Marŝigu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Irigu la ŝafojn herbejen.

reza_k (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 5:03:25 alasiri

nornen:"Preni" sounds strange here. "preni" means to take something into the hand, to grab something, not to take something to another place.
"herbejo" must be a noun ending in -o. I personally would use an accusative of direction for "to the grassland".

Gvidu la ŝafojn al la herbejo.
Gvidu la ŝafojn sur la herbejon.
Gvidu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Marŝigu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Irigu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Thanks, really helpful. But when you say "Gvidu la ŝafojn sur la herbejon" I understand it in that way: "Guide the sheep in the grassland [to herd]" (say, the practice what a shepherd does). Could you please clarify me?

robbkvasnak (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 5:14:23 alasiri

The correct word in English is "grammar" - English has a weird spelling system and it is based on historic forms, not on current pronunciation - this is a great example of why Esperanto has a heads up on English ridulo.gif

nornen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 5:20:35 alasiri

reza_k:
nornen:"Preni" sounds strange here. "preni" means to take something into the hand, to grab something, not to take something to another place.
"herbejo" must be a noun ending in -o. I personally would use an accusative of direction for "to the grassland".

Gvidu la ŝafojn al la herbejo.
Gvidu la ŝafojn sur la herbejon.
Gvidu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Marŝigu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Irigu la ŝafojn herbejen.
Thanks, really helpful. But when you say "Gvidu la ŝafojn sur la herbejon" I understand it in that way: "Guide the sheep in the grassland [to herd]" (say, the practice what a shepherd does). Could you please clarify me?
Yes. It means literally "Guide the sheep onto the grassland." I imagine a shepherd who whistles or calls his sheep, and the flock follows him until they arrive at the grassland.
If you want the listener to take the sheep to the grassland using his truck, then you could use "Veturigu la ŝafojn herbejen.".

If this wasn't the meaning you intended, please give me more context about the original meaning.

----
Literal translations of the other examples:
Gvidu la ŝafojn al la herbejo. - Guide the sheep to the grassland.
Gvidu la ŝafojn sur la herbejon. - Guide the sheep onto the grassland.
Gvidu la ŝafojn herbejen. - Guide the sheep to the grassland.
Marŝigu la ŝafojn herbejen. - Make the sheep march to the grassland.
Irigu la ŝafojn herbejen. - Make the sheep go to the grassland.

reza_k (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 5:25:26 alasiri

robbkvasnak:The correct word in English is "grammar" - English has a weird spelling system and it is based on historic forms, not on current pronunciation - this is a great example of why Esperanto has a heads up on English ridulo.gif
You mean when we use "sur", there is no any difference with "al"?

Gvidu la ŝafojn sur la herbejon. - Guide the sheep onto the grassland.

For me, above sentence is completely different in meaning among the others. Maybe because I am weak in Esperanto and English both.

tommjames (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 5:29:03 alasiri

Another possibility for the verb to use here would be konduku.

nornen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 5:29:44 alasiri

"al" is movement towards a place.
"al la herbejo" means "to(wards) the grassland".
"sur la herbejo" means "on the grassland".
"sur la herbejon" means "onto the grassland".

I think that in Esperanto "sur" is the right preposition here, because a grassland is a surface and we stand on top of it.

And yes, in this example "sur la herbejon" and "al la herbejo" and "herbejen" are mostly interchangeable.

reza_k (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2015 5:34:42 alasiri

nornen:"al" is movement towards a place.
"al la herbejo" means "to(wards) the grassland".
"sur la herbejo" means "on the grassland".
"sur la herbejon" means "onto the grassland".

I think that in Esperanto "sur" is the right preposition here, because a grassland is a surface and we stand on top of it.

And yes, in this example "sur la herbejon" and "al la herbejo" and "herbejen" are mostly interchangeable.
Thank you very very very much, I get it NOW:
"sur la herbejo" means "on the grassland".
"sur la herbejon" means "onto the grassland".

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