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Is Cxu nessasary?

de Alkanadi, 11 martie 2015

Contribuții/Mesaje: 57

Limbă: English

Alkanadi (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 14:24:02

Esperanto, like some other languages, uses a word to indicate that the sentence is a question. It is the word Cxu.

Is this word necessary? Or is rising intonation enough to denote a question?

I was just reading a text and I saw this Ĉio preta? It is a full sentence. Is this a mistake in the text or is it allowed to omit the Cxu?

johmue (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 14:43:44

Alkanadi:Esperanto, like some other languages, uses a word to indicate that the sentence is a question. It is the word Cxu.

Is this word necessary? Or is rising intonation enough to denote a question?

I was just reading a text and I saw this Ĉio preta? It is a full sentence. Is this a mistake in the text or is it allowed to omit the Cxu?
It is absolutely necessary. You can actually drop anything but "ĉu".

Ĉio preta? with the questionmark is wrong. Spoken, regardless of intonation it would mean "Everything's ready."

You'd rather say simply "Ĉu?"

"ĉu" is the word that makes the sentence a question. Intonation is not enough because that's a European thing. It's not guaranteed to be understood worldwide.

Dakila_Sidhi (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 15:09:13

Like other languages it is not necessary in the informal language. A question mark when written or the tone of voice when spoken is enough to ask. In practical use, this is proper. Of course in the formal language, it is necessary.

In English the proper way of asking is "Do you have it?" but just simply saying "You have it?" is enough. "Is he tall?" could just be "He's tall?". Same thing.

johmue (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 16:20:41

Dakila_Sidhi:Like other languages it is not necessary in the informal language. A question mark when written or the tone of voice when spoken is enough to ask. In practical use, this is proper.
I severely disagree.
In English the proper way of asking is "Do you have it?" but just simply saying "You have it?" is enough. "Is he tall?" could just be "He's tall?". Same thing.
In English yes, but not in Esperanto. In Esperanto the "ĉu" is crucial. Even in colloquial language.

You'd never say "Vere?" instead of "Ĉu vere?" meaning "Really?" You'd rather say just "Ĉu?"

vikungen (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 16:25:30

Alkanadi:Esperanto, like some other languages, uses a word to indicate that the sentence is a question. It is the word Cxu.

Is this word necessary?
Short answer: Yes.

robbkvasnak (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 16:28:14

Ĉu is especially necessary because not all languages have the same intonation. Spanish speakers tend to go up at the end of a statement, or if not up, the sentence is fairly even in intonation. This leads them to be misunderstood when they speak English because native English speakers interpret the Spanish speakers of English as making a statement the meaning of which they do not seem to be sure. English speakers interpret the English-speaking Spanish speakers in the wrong way. In Esperanto, it is similar. People tend to use the intonation of their mother tongue, meaning that misunderstandings are possible.
Another example, Polynesian speakers tend to go DOWN when asking questions.
Ĉu is a wonderful idea. I sometimes wonder how Z came up with such brilliant things ( like je, and -um-).

johmue (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 16:29:07

vikungen:
Alkanadi:Esperanto, like some other languages, uses a word to indicate that the sentence is a question. It is the word Cxu.

Is this word necessary? Or is rising intonation enough to denote a question?

I was just reading a text and I saw this Ĉio preta? It is a full sentence. Is this a mistake in the text or is it allowed to omit the Cxu?
Short answer: Yes.
Yes to what?

Is "ĉu" necessary? Yes.
Is it in colloquial language allowed to omit it? No.

sudanglo (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 16:43:30

Ĉio preta? with the questionmark is wrong
Then a lot of dialogues in published translations are wrong. Hint: try searching for a question mark in the Tekstaro.

In any case, it is not just intonation that will flag such truncated forms as questions, it is also context.

A: Kiam mi estis lastatempe en Parizo
B: Parizo? Mi kredis ke vi neniam estis en Francujo
Intonation is not enough because that's a European thing
Really? Then I wonder how the equivalent of 'Ĉio preta?' is flagged as a question in non-European languages. Why don't we ask in the Esperanto Forums.

sudanglo (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 17:10:09

English speakers interpret the English-speaking Spanish speakers in the wrong way
Plausibly, not just because of confusing intonation.

In any case, it may be that intonation is relied on to convey meaning much more heavily in English, with the result that the notoriously monolingual native speakers of English are baffled by Spanish speakers.

The important question is how often there are misunderstandings in informal conversation between Esperanto speakers of different mother tongue backgrounds. In my experience, not many.
People tend to use the intonation of their mother tongue
Do I do that when speaking Esperanto? Honestly Robb, I couldn't say.

Are you aware Robb of how you would pronounce in Esperanto sukeron, meaning you want the sugar versus sukeron? meaning do you take sugar. Incidentally, it will be pretty obvious from context. If the sugar is out of reach, or you are holding the sugar bowl.

Is there any way of posting Sound files in the Forums? If so, we could organise the posting of pronunciations of Ĉio preta? from Esperantists all over the world. Then we could talk from facts rather than armchair speculation

johmue (Arată profil) 11 martie 2015, 17:11:48

sudanglo:
Ĉio preta? with the questionmark is wrong
Then a lot of dialogues in published translations are wrong. Hint: try searching for a question mark in the Tekstaro.

In any case, it is not just intonation that will flag such truncated forms as questions, it is also context.

A: Kiam mi estis lastatempe en Parizo
B: Parizo? Mi kredis ke vi neniam estis en Francujo
That's actually a case that can be tolerated. It's not an actual question, but an expression of doubt or surprise.

If you however ask a question and really want an answer, than you'd have to use "ĉu" or another question word.

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