Mesaĝoj: 90
Lingvo: English
Bemused (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 08:18:01
BeardedBloke:I've been toying with the idea (theoretically, I'm hardly going to start a movement) of a regularised international English. Something that wouldn't be too hard for native English speakers to pick up or understand, but not as hard as natural English for ESL students to learn. Something along the lines of Esperanto, but following English conventions.Native speakers would have no trouble understanding regularised English. We already have it. It is called baby talk. Then kids are taught all the exceptions to the patterns they are noticing and trying to apply.
As for spelling, in the 1960's there was ITA (Initial Teaching Alphabet). Kids learned to spell using that system much faster than with traditional spelling, and fewer had diffficulties learning to spell using that system. Then after a couple of years they were told that now they should learn to spell "properly". That set many kids back, behind others that had learnt traditional spelling from the beginning.
The problem was not with ITA, but with expecting kids to drop it and relearn how to spell using the traditional sytem.
If ITA was adopted as an alternate spelling we would have all the advantages (faster learning, fewer kids with learning difficulties, easier remedial learning for semi literate adults) with none of the disadvantage of having to unlearn it and then learn traditional spelling.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 08:45:57
Bemused:I've been toying with the idea (theoretically, I'm hardly going to start a movement) of a regularised international English. Something that wouldn't be too hard for native English speakers to pick up or understand, but not as hard as natural English for ESL students to learn. Something along the lines of Esperanto, but following English conventions.Check out this list of pidgins. Other people have tried to do what you are talking about. I still prefer Globish though because it is grammatically correct.
vincas (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 10:34:29
Alkanadi:This stuff must drive English learners crazyMaybe every language has a similar stuff.
morico (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 10:40:30
Alkanadi:This stuff must drive English learners crazyand That: Extracts of http://www.esperanto-sat.info/article347.html
1-Alphabet non-phonetic (46 phonemes, 20 vowels)
2-Prononciation chaotic, elusive, impossible to standardise
3-Stress indefinable, determined by usage; no standard can be established
4-Irregular verbs 283
5-Conjugation : - root variable
6-Identification of the grammatical function confused, many grammatical relations are unexpressed
7- Syntax rigid, fixed word order
8- Word derivation (1) limited possibilities : 5%
9- Idioms innumerable
10-Homonyms very numerous
11-Polysémy (2) very commun (1)*
Vocabulary necessary to understand an ordinary text (3) for 80-90% : 2000 words; for 99% : 7000 words ::
Time needed to reach a standard equivalent to A-level (4) 1500 hours for a French speaker
(1) "Lingvistikaj aspektoj de Esperanto", Dr John C. Wells; professor of English language phonetics at University College London.
(2) Edward Thorndike, a famous American teacher and educationalist.
(3) "Fortoj de l’vivo", Vilho Setälä, a Finnish linguist.
(4) Dr Helmar Frank, director of the Institute of Cybernetics in Paderborn, Germany.
* 21 120 different meanings for the 850 words of the basic vocabulary.
:: Frequency of dictionary consultation : one unknown word in a hundred
KStef (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 12:55:18
BeardedBloke (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 13:49:34
Alkanadi:Other people have tried to do what you are talking about. I still prefer Globish though because it is grammatically correct.I think this would be a case of needing some kind of official recognition to be useful. As the most popular Conlang Esperanto has hardly made a dent and I don't see that changing unless the EU or UN or someone backed something (although my perception is Esperanto has more penetration than the 100,000 speaker lower limit sometimes cited).
Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 16:40:03
Not many people are aware, but there is a Wikipedia in "Simple English". The articles are still plenty complicated and feature lots of vocabulary. I honestly don't think it's much easier to read than the regular English Wikipedia.
I would wager that the Esperanto Wikipedia, on average, uses fewer roots than Simple Wikipedia, plus it has the benefit of no irregularities and no non-obvious idioms.
bartlett22183 (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 17:19:46
Alkanadi:I have looked at that website and have "the book." However, the website seems to be inactive. I once tried to ask a question but never got an answer. I wonder whether whatever "movement" for Globish there might be could be moribund.BeardedBloke:I've been toying with the idea (theoretically, I'm hardly going to start a movement) of a regularised international English. Something that wouldn't be too hard for native English speakers to pick up or understand, but not as hard as natural English for ESL students to learn. Something along the lines of Esperanto, but following English conventions.Try Globish. It uses 1,500 words from English. It is grammatically correct. He trains teachers and students.
One issue that comes up with simplified forms of "natural / national" languages is the notion that native speakers will scoff at them, not try to use the simplified / restricted forms (or have difficulty restricting themselves), and urge people to learn "the real thing."
A more robust auxiliary language like Esperanto (or even Interlingua) might have more of a chance because it is far more regular to learn with fewer exceptions than "national" languages but still have a much larger vocabulary with fewer stilted expressions than restricted languages.
robbkvasnak (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 18:57:04
Mustelvulpo (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-21 20:25:57
KStef:I was laughing when I saw "how to tie a tie"Ty, show the Thai how to tie his tie.