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How does one say "clue?"

de jkph00, 2015-majo-02

Mesaĝoj: 16

Lingvo: English

jkph00 (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-02 13:48:11

I am trying to express this sentence, "From letters one often learns of occasions, thoughts and feelings about which their family had no clue." The proper word for "clue" escapes me. I was thinking perhaps, "Per leteroj oni ofte lernas pri aferoj, pensoj kaj sentoj, pri kiuj siaj familianoj havis neniun ŝlosilon / indicon / indikon." Somehow those words just don't seem right to me. What is the proper word for "clue?"

By the way, I use "siaj" because I am writing of a correspondent who has passed away, not of "one.". Do I err?

Warmest thanks in advance.

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-02 15:03:34

"Have no clue" is a somewhat idiomatic English construction. I would be tempted to find another way entirely of expressing this.

Most straightforward is something like: "Per leteroj oni ofte lernas pri aferoj, pensoj, kaj sentoj, kiujn la familianoj de la forpasinto tute ne sciis."

"Sia" has to refer to the subject of the clause, so this would mean "about which one's family had no clue" - the family of the learner, not the deceased.

However, if you have already mentioned the deceased (forpasinto) in previous context, you could shorten the relative clause: kiujn liaj/ŝiaj familianoj tute ne sciis.

If tute ne sciis seems unimaginative, you could replace it with: entute ne sciis, neniel sciis, eĉ ne suspektis, eĉ ne imagis, depending on the level of emphasis you desire.

jkph00 (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-02 15:33:45

Tempodivalse:"Have no clue" is a somewhat idiomatic English construction. I would be tempted to find another way entirely of expressing this...
Handsomely done. Much obliged. ridulo.gif

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-02 18:41:11

Also, it occurred to me that for consistency it might be better to say pri kiuj liaj familianoj tute ne sciis/etc., since you are using pri in the main clause also. I don't think it makes a huge difference.

Scratch (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-02 18:45:18

jkph00:
Tempodivalse:"Have no clue" is a somewhat idiomatic English construction. I would be tempted to find another way entirely of expressing this...
Handsomely done. Much obliged. ridulo.gif
What if we change from the opening post "neniun indikon" to "neniajn ideojn?" Don't forget how useful the -a correlatvies can be. Tempodivalse's idea is also very good, about realizing how idiomatic the expression is.

But that may be just me. I really like the correlatives that end in -a because of how they can expand the meaning some.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-04 22:59:39

My Esperanto idiom for "I have no clue" is "Mi havas neniun ideon". A lot of people use it, including people from language backgrounds other than English. Normally it's in the singular, not "neniujn ideojn" but "neniun ideon"

There's also the short version:
"Kiam vi venos?"
"Neniun ideon"

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-04 23:14:23

erinja:My Esperanto idiom for "I have no clue" is "Mi havas neniun ideon". A lot of people use it, including people from language backgrounds other than English. Normally it's in the singular, not "neniujn ideojn" but "neniun ideon"

There's also the short version:
"Kiam vi venos?"
"Neniun ideon"
The Russian equivalent is: понятия не имею, literally nocion mi ne havas.

One could also get creative - e.g. Mi malscias ...

jkph00 (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-05 14:15:53

Tempodivalse:
erinja:My Esperanto idiom for "I have no clue" is "Mi havas neniun ideon". A lot of people use it, including people from language backgrounds other than English. Normally it's in the singular, not "neniujn ideojn" but "neniun ideon"

There's also the short version:
"Kiam vi venos?"
"Neniun ideon"
The Russian equivalent is: понятия не имею, literally nocion mi ne havas.

One could also get creative - e.g. Mi malscias ...
These are all wonderful suggestions to express not knowing something, but in the context I wish to use it, i.e., discussing how to get through a genealogical stone wall, the word "clue" is of the essence. By "clue" I mean anything that serves to guide or direct in the solution of a problem, mystery, etc.

Would indiko serve for that? I cannot tell clearly from the examples I find in the Tekstaro.

Ŝerloko, kie vi estas? okulumo.gif

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-05 16:30:38

"Indiko", is "indication", "sign", "symbol" (i.e. that brings someone's attention to a certain fact). It seems this is a rough synonym of "clue" ...

You could also consider "spuro" - trace, as in "Al ili ne restis ecx spuro pri..." or similar.

eshapard (Montri la profilon) 2015-majo-26 21:57:37

Tempodivalse:"Indiko", is "indication", "sign", "symbol" (i.e. that brings someone's attention to a certain fact). It seems this is a rough synonym of "clue" ...

You could also consider "spuro" - trace, as in "Al ili ne restis ecx spuro pri..." or similar.
I like indiko best of for this.

To be without a clue is more that not knowing (ne skii) or having no idea (neniun ideon); it's to not even have any evidence that would lead you to knowing.

It's not that the signs are all there and you just haven't put two and two together; you don't have any indication at all.

Originally, a clue (or clew) was a ball of twine. Theseus used one to find his way back out of the Minotaur's labyrinth. Without the clue, he would not only have not known where the exit was, he would have had almost no way to find it. For some reason, the metaphoric use has survived, while the ball-of-twine use has not.

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