Příspěvky: 22
Jazyk: English
Alkanadi (Ukázat profil) 24. května 2015 8:40:27
leporinjo (Ukázat profil) 24. května 2015 8:57:41
As far as Ido and Volapük and Interlingua and Occidental and Idiom Neutral etc. go, the one thing you can say for sure is that people in the late 19th century and early 20th century were more passionate about Esperanto than any of them, and to this day very few people are taking much interest in them.
I don't think this can just be attributed to the qualities of the language alone. It has to do with culture, which also explains the popularity of Klingon and Toki Pona, as well as the early popularity of Volapük. It also has a lot to do with the Fundamento, which prevents people from hastily reforming the language away, and the Interna Ideo.
Fenris_kcf (Ukázat profil) 24. května 2015 9:43:43
I think part of the problem is, that many constructed languages are based on others and there might be dozens or hundreds of derivations (for example the many Esperanidos). So which one to choose? An obvious solution is to pick the original and/or the one which has the most speakers. Both holds in the case of Esperanto.
Independent constructed languages suffer from another problem: Gaining the "critical mass". It needs to somehow justify why it is worth learning it and it needs to establish an active speakerbase.
So i don't think that it's a matter of goodness, but a matter of circumstances.
bartlett22183 (Ukázat profil) 24. května 2015 13:17:19
Tempodivalse (Ukázat profil) 26. května 2015 18:28:28
bartlett22183:Years ago, I wrote an essay "Thoughts on IAL Success," available here. By no means do I consider it the last word, but it is a little too long to summarize in a brief post here.Excellent article, thank you for sharing. Many salient points.
Mustelvulpo (Ukázat profil) 26. května 2015 21:11:52
leporinjo: It also has a lot to do with the Fundamento, which prevents people from hastily reforming the language away, and the Interna Ideo.This was crucial. Zamenhof stated that the language was not to be changed or tinkered with even by him. English has changed more since 1888 than Esperanto has. I think another important factor is that, upon the release of his first small booklet, Zamenhof renounced any ownership, copyright, or proprietary interest in the language. He proclaimed that the language belonged not to him, but to the world.
rapn21 (Ukázat profil) 28. května 2015 15:39:23
I think the Fundamento was important is this regard as it prevented people from having futile debates about the form of the language and instead focused them on actually using the language. So while Ido and others may laim to have a better language, Esperanto has the better community.
bryku (Ukázat profil) 29. května 2015 6:12:55
Gleki (Ukázat profil) 29. května 2015 18:18:35
No one says "Why PHP failed?" It has its own applications. Same for Lojban. It will be used in certain areas. Esperanto can't replace Lojban, and Lojban can't replace Esperanto.
jaidit (Ukázat profil) 30. května 2015 3:32:54
leporinjo:It's had far more time than, say, Lojban, Toki Pona or Klingon, so I would reserve judgment on anything like those languages. Considering it has only been around for 35 years or so, Klingon is impressively popular. The same goes for Lojban, which has been around for 18-25 years depending on where you start counting, and Toki Pona, which has been around for 14 years.Leporinjo raises an intersting point with a comparison to Klingon (which turns 30 this year). Think about Esperanto at 30 (1917): thousands of people spoke it. Reportedly the number of people who can speak Klingon conversationally without frequent recourse to a dictionary is fewer than a dozen. Klingon gets a lot of media attention, but in terms of actual users, I don't think it's actually "impressively popular."
As far as Ido and Volapük and Interlingua and Occidental and Idiom Neutral etc. go, the one thing you can say for sure is that people in the late 19th century and early 20th century were more passionate about Esperanto than any of them, and to this day very few people are taking much interest in them.
I don't think this can just be attributed to the qualities of the language alone. It has to do with culture, which also explains the popularity of Klingon and Toki Pona, as well as the early popularity of Volapük. It also has a lot to do with the Fundamento, which prevents people from hastily reforming the language away, and the Interna Ideo.