Duolingo will help with reform!!!!
de 1Guy1, 2015-majo-31
Mesaĝoj: 183
Lingvo: English
Kirilo81 (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 19:17:46
1) It is a very pity the personal pronouns in E-o all end in i, making them difficultly discernible (Ido makes this better). Adding another pronoun would only make things worse.
2) Although I can only repeat that I morally support queer people's rights, I find it utterly narcistic to come up to someone and say "Hi, I'm XY, please use for me the pronoun [insert invented 3rd person pronoun here]". Heck, should I make a list of my LGBT friends who likes which pronoun? This goes in the direction of Calvin & Hobbes' "maybe we can make language a complete impediment for understanding", IMHO, and does not do anyone anything good.
Fenris_kcf (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 19:36:34
Kirilo81:Hiismo comes closer to a solution according to the Fundamento (except for the use of hi, as new pronouns are against the norm), but it solves only a part of the problem, as it still gives no possibility to express a parent of unknown sex/uncommon gender and exposes sex instead of hiding it.I agree on that. That's how i understand Hiismo.
So in my opinion it would be more appropriate to propagate the use of neutral bases from which the other forms can be derived, e.g. instead of
patro - patrino - patro(j)/patrino(j) - gepatroj
you would have
virparento/parentiĉo - parentino - parento(j) - geparentoj
The sexistic roots like patro could become archaisms, just like the evolutionary model of Esperanto has foreseen.
Kirilo81:... I find it utterly narcistic to come up to someone and say "Hi, I'm XY, please use for me the pronoun [insert invented 3rd person pronoun here]". Heck, should I make a list of my LGBT friends who likes which pronoun?IMO the introduction of a gender-neutral pronoun would obviate any claim for further special pronouns.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 19:53:39
Kirilo81:Heck, should I make a list of my LGBT friends who likes which pronoun?That would be funny. But, how about this. Do they look like a man or a woman? Is there anyone in this group that you aren't sure about, or can you generally categorize them according to their look.
When I was a kid, there was a boy/girl who did not have private parts. He was considered a boy because he didn't have a uterus or ovaries. The doctor classified him as such. It was really hard to figure out if he was a guy or a girl just by looking at him because of related hormone issues. He told people that he isn't a he or a she. He told people that he was an it. If this person wants to be called a ri then I would be happy to accommodate him. In all other cases, I think it is easy to tell whether a person looks feminine or masculine.
A system that never changes become irrelevant. A system that changes often becomes unstable. Therefore, a balance must be achieved. Without ri, does Esperanto loss some relevance? By adding ri, does Esperanto become more unstable?
1Guy1 (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 20:07:20
leporinjo:In British English the title "Mx." (pronounced "mix" or "mux" ) is standardized for non-binary people and people of unknown gender.Standardised? I am a native Brit and I have never heard of this.
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leporinjo (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 20:10:30
Not you 1Guy1, but I suggest you google.
1Guy1 (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 21:06:34
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 21:16:42
Tempodivalse:Bill Owen was a cockney and failed to get Yorkshire dialect right most of the time. Tha is a form of thy not thou or thee, this would me thi ...anyway.
Also, @orthohawk, the nominative is surely thou and not thee, unless you're speaking in the rural British-English dialect, which would have tha... (Ever heard Bill Owens on "Last of the Summer Wine"?)
I've been going through the Duolingo course since it was launched and it's pretty regular apart from the hiccups common to Duolingo courses. I can't detect all mistakes because I'm not fluent at all.
There have been some funny (as in odd) claims in this thread. Erinja was right, if a bit blunt, in saying that there is no language which has an official pronoun denoting transgender (or whatever official term it is). There is not a single language, not even world English that has altered in its official form to accommodate awareness of this new issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sorely deluded.
Sunjo (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 21:33:00
Vestitor:What about "hen" in Swedish?
There have been some funny (as in odd) claims in this thread. Erinja was right, if a bit blunt, in saying that there is no language which has an official pronoun denoting transgender (or whatever official term it is). There is not a single language, not even world English that has altered in its official form to accommodate awareness of this new issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sorely deluded.
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 21:38:13
Sunjo:I don't know, what about it? I don't speak Swedish, so if you are telling me they have created a new pronoun to denote transgender, I'll have to provisionally take your word for it. My scepticism would run to supposing that it is not a universally accepted part of the official language. However, I don't fear being utterly wrong.
What about "hen" in Swedish?
Sunjo (Montri la profilon) 2015-junio-01 21:40:09
Vestitor:You can google it, it was in the news (at least in German news, but most likely also in other languages).Sunjo:I don't know, what about it? I don't speak Swedish, so if you are telling me they have created a new pronoun to denote transgender, I'll have to provisionally take your word for it. My scepticism would run to supposing that it is not a universally accepted part of the official language. However, I don't fear being utterly wrong.
What about "hen" in Swedish?
Edit: here is an article about "hen" in Esperanto: http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/hartmut/hen.html