Príspevky: 80
Jazyk: English
Tempodivalse (Zobraziť profil) 4. júna 2015 18:46:46
yasmin_chanelle (Zobraziť profil) 5. júna 2015 17:52:47
Tempodivalse (Zobraziť profil) 5. júna 2015 18:09:16
yasmin_chanelle:Someone mentioned Ido borrowings being colloquial. I'm trying to get in contact with a more fluid natural colloquial elegant style of Esperanto and this phenomenon interests me. To what extant does this happen? Examples? Will people on the hypothetically green streets recognize them?The extent of Ido borrowings in Esperanto is very limited; perhaps the best-known example is the suffix -enda. There are also some unofficial (and in my opinion mostly unnecessary) suffixes like -oz, -al, but you almost never see them, especially not in colloquial speech.
If you use Idisms in your speech (like the pronouns, correlatives, uniquely Ido roots etc.) you will almost certainly not be readily understood.
Linguists call the formal, informal etc. ways of speaking "registers", and it's interesting to observe them in Esperanto. Esperanto lacks the kind of extensive colloquial and slang vocabulary that you see in (say) English, so it is harder to emphasise a particular register.
But there are some things you can do to make a text more conversational, or at least spontaneous-sounding:
1) Use a verbal adjective instead of esti + adjective, for example: La cxielo bluas instead of La cxielo estas blua or Li altas instead of Li estas alta.
2) Use single-word adverbs for concepts you'd normally express with prepositions in several words, for example Miaopinie instead of Laux mia opinio and Cxi-somere instead of cxi tiun someron or dum cxi tiu somero.
3) Avoid excessive use of the adjectival and adverbial participles, using more wordy equivalents like kiu, for instance: Mi vidas la viron kiu portas kravaton instead of Mi vidas la viron portantan kravaton.
----
[1] If suitable for your purposes, you could include real Ido in your text to give the impression of a dialect of Esperanto, or some other foreign language, which still has some level of intelligibility. This was done in at least one Esperanto play, as I recall.
JinxLeRai (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2015 2:14:59
What do we do with gendered nouns when referring to non-binary people? A friend of mine is non-binary and I was trying to write about them in Esperanto but got completely stuck because I didn't know whether to call them "mia amiko" or "mia amikino". Any suggestions?
nornen (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2015 2:20:07
JinxLeRai:I just read through the whole thread, so I don't think I missed people talking about this, but if I did, my apologies:What do you do in your native tongue?
What do we do with gendered nouns when referring to non-binary people? A friend of mine is non-binary and I was trying to write about them in Esperanto but got completely stuck because I didn't know whether to call them "mia amiko" or "mia amikino". Any suggestions?
Do you refer to him as "mein Freund" or "meine Freundin"?
If you use the first, use "mia amiko" in Esperanto, if you use the latter, use "mia amikino".
If you use in German another form (no idea, maybe "meine Freunde" ), then use the corresponding form in Esperanto.
Maybe you could post what you want to write to him in German, and me or someone else can help you to render it in Esperanto.
Just my two cents.
RiotNrrd (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2015 3:17:55
If you wish to underscore that they are female, use amikino.
If you wish to underscore that they are male, use viramiko.
I would generally go with amiko unless specifying the gender is important, and if it is I personally would choose which to use based on physical characteristics unless advised otherwise by the individual.
JinxLeRai (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2015 3:22:28
nornen:Thanks for the reply, nornen. Actually my native tongue is English, which gives me a nice way to circumnavigate the problem in that language.JinxLeRai:I just read through the whole thread, so I don't think I missed people talking about this, but if I did, my apologies:What do you do in your native tongue?
What do we do with gendered nouns when referring to non-binary people? A friend of mine is non-binary and I was trying to write about them in Esperanto but got completely stuck because I didn't know whether to call them "mia amiko" or "mia amikino". Any suggestions?
Do you refer to him as "mein Freund" or "meine Freundin"?
If you use the first, use "mia amiko" in Esperanto, if you use the latter, use "mia amikino".
If you use in German another form (no idea, maybe "meine Freunde" ), then use the corresponding form in Esperanto.
Maybe you could post what you want to write to him in German, and me or someone else can help you to render it in Esperanto.
Just my two cents.
I simply wanted to write that "my friend and I went to a show".(I do sometimes speak German with this friend, but have encountered the same problem there – the necessity of gendering nouns makes me pause when introducing them to others. Are they a "Sänger" or a "Sängerin"? I tend to awkwardly rephrase in order to avoid this, but I'd like to find a good solution there too!)
JinxLeRai (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2015 3:24:06
RiotNrrd:amiko = friend (no gender specified)Just saw your reply after posting my previous answer, RiotNrrd – thanks for the response! Looks like my problem is not so problematic after all; I hadn't realized that "amiko" was gender-neutral. I think I will do as you say.
If you wish to underscore that they are female, use amikino.
If you wish to underscore that they are male, use viramiko.
RiotNrrd (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2015 3:32:56
It would be nice if the familial nouns were also gender-neutral, but we are stuck with the fact that they aren't. Luckily, there really aren't very many of these.
Esperanto is not 100% regular. It's close. But it's not perfect. Best get used to that now.
Tempodivalse (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2015 3:45:20
I find it somewhat ironic that, despite the criticism that Esperanto's -in suffix is sexist, there is no equally simple way to indicate explicit masculine. Of course, there is the prefix vir-, which looks a little awkward, and can be ambiguous - is virbovo a bull or a man-bull, e.g. minotaur? For that reason, I will often prefer a standalone adjective vira, or rely on context where possible (e.g., use of masculine pronoun).