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opinii v. pensi

de Venkistido, 18 juin 2015

Messages : 8

Langue: English

Venkistido (Voir le profil) 18 juin 2015 22:22:56

I am revising the Esperanto I studied years ago using Duolingo, and am very much enjoying it. One thing doesn't sit quite right with me, however. I was presented with a sentence, "Mi pensas, ke sxi ne zorgas." I think I have already seen 'pensi' used similarly on the course. Is this correct usage? I seem to remember being taught years ago that 'pensi' was reserved for actual thinking as opposed to merely opining. Anyone shed some light on this for me, please?

Vestitor (Voir le profil) 18 juin 2015 23:06:08

I also questioned this and thought kredi was equally right (but it was rejected). There was another discussion on Duolingo about the uses of scii vs koni, which they seemed to be interchanging willy-nilly without regard for context.

It is still in beta though and they are processing loads of improvement reports.

eshapard (Voir le profil) 18 juin 2015 23:43:42

To opine is to express an opinion. Opinii is to have a belief or opinion (or be of a belief or opinion, as it's sometimes said).

So opinii would be a good choice for describing that someone holds a belief.

However, I don't think we can deny that our beliefs and opinions are in fact thoughts, and therefore the product of thinking.

Tekstaro.com gives plenty examples of pensas ke to indicate what someone believes. "Kelkaj esperantistoj pensas ke mi uzas en miaj verkoj stilon slavan." -Zamenhof

Vestitor (Voir le profil) 19 juin 2015 01:16:23

eshapard:To opine is to express an opinion. Opinii is to have a belief or opinion (or be of a belief or opinion, as it's sometimes said).

So opinii would be a good choice for describing that someone holds a belief.

However, I don't think we can deny that our beliefs and opinions are in fact thoughts, and therefore the product of thinking.

Tekstaro.com gives plenty examples of pensas ke to indicate what someone believes. "Kelkaj esperantistoj pensas ke mi uzas en miaj verkoj stilon slavan." -Zamenhof
The thing is, thoughts are not always expressed (or able to be expressed). Pensas (as related to French pensee, or English 'pensive' ) is thinking without necessarily saying anything about it. You think things through, then you make statements about them, or not. In the case of that duolingo sentence it's really only a belief or an opinion (which comes from some kind of thought). Even Esperanto can't escape the problem of pinpointing meaning exactly.

eshapard (Voir le profil) 19 juin 2015 02:36:37

Vestitor,

It's true that opinii has a narrower scope that pensii; one refers to thinking the kinds of thoughts we call beliefs and opinions, while the other can refer to any type of thinking. Neither refers to stating those beliefs (as the English word opine does). But according to the tekstaro, both words seem to work to describe a belief or opinion when used with ke.

Just because you have a ball-peen at your disposal, doesn't mean you can't use a sledgehammer.

So either word works as far as I can see; no need for exact pinpointing of meaning, or using the more specific term.

What doesn't work is substituting koni for scii; one is not really a specific type of the other. I'm with you all the way on that one. okulumo.gif

EldanarLambetur (Voir le profil) 19 juin 2015 12:32:24

It's already been mentioned that "pensi" is a more general term than "opinii". In fact, see usage 3 of "pensi" on vortaro.net: "havi motivon por supozi, opinii".

I just wanted to share my thought process for interpreting/using those words:

1. Mi pensas, ke ŝi ne zorgas = I am thinking that / I think that / It is in my thoughts that...
2. Mi opinias, ke ŝi ne zorgas = It is my opinion that...

The first one says something about what's going through my head (or what goes through my head habitually). I might be considering the idea, it might be my opinion, it might be a suspicion etc.

The second one explicitly says that I have formed and currently hold the opinion expressed.

Venkistido (Voir le profil) 19 juin 2015 20:57:43

Thank you for the replies, folks. Mi opinias, ke mi havas multon por pripensi... okulumo.gif

Vestitor (Voir le profil) 20 juin 2015 02:17:17

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