Vestitor: The rest of the work you can do yourself. I have far better things to do.

By an odd coincidence, I have better things to do than dig out the evidence for other people's sweeping assertions.

orthohawk:

Vestitor:Well, I've been a Marxist for the last 24 years and no-one mentions it because I hardly mention it; sometimes it's also unnecessary to do so, like on here. When a person makes a show of their beliefs at every given opportunity it starts to define them just a bit too much.

I get that, but that's no reason to go off on someone. We as esperantists are beyond that kind of thing........or we should be..........

So, just shut up and you'll be OK, is that how it is? Why should we (and I'm including thee in this)? If we wish to mention our beliefs, whether they be Christian, atheist, Marxist or whatever, we should be able to do so without having our heads bitten off by people who don't agree with us.

Aye, it's never good to be always in conflict or to be hammered for what you believe. The thing is, I couldn't give a hoot whether folk agree with me or not. However I also want to have some manners and so try to be as tactful as possible. I've found the best way, especially online, is to generally avoid this kind of thing in discussions; especially on websites that are not specifically related to these topics.

Venkistido:

Vestitor: The rest of the work you can do yourself. I have far better things to do.

By an odd coincidence, I have better things to do than dig out the evidence for other people's sweeping assertions.

Let's drop it then.

EldanarLambetur:It's hard to comment without seeing some examples (I don't often take part in non-linguistic debates here).

Unfortunately the one person whose words on this subject I still have a copy of has requested me to keep our correspondence private, which I must abide by. As for the others, I had no idea when we were corresponding on this before, that I would need to be keep their messages as proof of this assertion.

I do remember one person's writing to me via a lernu message who said basically she was sick and tired of posters "calling people liars, murderers, child molesters, etc. in the absence of clear proof to the contrary. This is not what I would consider appropriate behavior for any forum, but the admins appeared to be OK with this as being merely "freedom of expression." Bull! (note: the actual word she used had four more letters) accounts have been deleted without warning when the people thus attacked also tried to exercise this "freedom of expression" in ways that did not meet with the admins' approval."

EldanarLambetur:
I could see how someone who responds to a critique of religion with an attack would have their post deleted, since actually lashing out at anyone is probably against forum rules, whereas even getting animated criticising a social phenomenon is not against the rules (e.g. ones text having a distressed tone when discussing honour killings).

I don't take honestly felt critique of my beliefs as an attack. But it's a differnt story altogether when my priest is called a "child molester" solely on the basis of his vocation, and when the central figure of my faith is maligned and called things that would make a sailor blush, sorry but that's where I start swinging. And this kind of crap (pardon my French) slung at THEIR favorite political figure, e.g., is saddled with the false label of "treasonous". Can we say "double standard"?

EldanarLambetur:Of course this is only a religion example, and I haven't seen the exchanges you're referencing, so interpret that however!

Just take a shifty at any of the threads in the Esperanto forums with religious references in the titles. Thee'll see plenty!

Vestitor:Super.

I can't quite fathom what you are asking for. However, if you open your eyes and surf the popular discussion and news sites on the internet they're chock-full of religious people crying their eyes out at being bullied by a 'biased left-wing media' or 'atheists' or whatever it is this week. There are also lots of non-believers, but they're mostly on the offensive, some also being offensive, though never wailing about being marginalised and ill-treated.

The rest of the work you can do yourself. I have far better things to do.

What I'm asking for is even handedness in dealing with this kind of thing. To tell Christians and others to (in so many words) "just suck it up" when attacked but then to turn around and delete accounts of people who dare to attack back.....thee doesn't see a double standard here? Either everyone gets to malign others or else nobody does. Anything else is bad form at its best and hypocrisy at its worst.

Vestitor:

Venkistido:

Vestitor: The rest of the work you can do yourself. I have far better things to do.

By an odd coincidence, I have better things to do than dig out the evidence for other people's sweeping assertions.

Let's drop it then.

oh, yeah. "let's just sweep it under the rug and maybe it'll go away"

Yeah, that always works just fine.

The internet is a magical place...a place where any single idiot can blare out their opinions at volumes to drown out the majority. In some ways, this is a good thing, arguably even in keeping with the spirit of Esperanto itself. After all, this strange magnification of minority opinions makes them loud enough for us to actually hear, and exposes us to worldviews we might otherwise be utterly ignorant of.

Unfortunately, it also has a distorting effect. We are used to a world where crowds are louder than individuals, no matter how much technology changes that. We hear one roof is mouthing off and think they represent an entire group...and if they claim a specific one, that group gets painted with their brush, like it or lump it.

We have to try and remember that no one person represents the world, because only every person can do that. Every person, in unison...and when does that ever happen?

...now that I've finished typing that, I'm not actually sure if it was on point or not. It just seemed worth saying.

The expression "I am religious" is a contextual one. In many parts of the USA it is interpreted as meaning "I am an evangelical Protestant". I taught school here in Florida and found that among Protestants, Catholics are not considered to be Christian and are put off as not being "religious". That was the predominant tenor in the area I taught in. It came as a shock to me.
I, too, am religious. I study the writings of the Buddha and those who write on subjects pertaining to His thoughts. I, however, to do not apply the rules of Buddhist teachings to other people. I expect ME to follow these ideas, not others.
Recently, some Protestant business people opened a brewery and bar with the name "Funky Buddha" down the street from me. I protested but was laughed out by the business people and the politicians in our town. I find it hurtful but the "Christians" with whom I have spoken about this think that I am silly and say that it is just a name.
I am not trying to impose my views on them but they do not even consider my views since for them my religious beliefs are irrelevant.
So for me the expression "I am religious" is an expression to be taken with caution. Does it mean that the person who says that wants to determine whether my husband and I may or may not have legal rights as a married couple? Is it a statement that means "I alone with the followers of my particular strain of faith are right and everyone else can just chuck it?"
My husband is a Voltaire'ian. He tells me to just ignore those who trivialize the Buddha and His teachings. I try to abide by that thought.

orthohawk:

oh, yeah. "let's just sweep it under the rug and maybe it'll go away"

Yeah, that always works just fine.

Okay, let's go at it for hours on end then. So that everyone can feel bitter about it and hard done by. Is that better?[/quote]

@robb

Sadly, "Funky Buddha" is just the kind of thing that a person can expect in a land preaching freedom of speech and tolerance of religion. You have every right to be upset by this use of the Buddha, and they have every right to be dismissive of your concerns. Should they be? Of course not...but it is their right.

I am not Buddhist, and I claim no real knowledge of Buddhism. I am, for the record, Christian...Lutheran if I need to be specific. I have to see T-shirts and Facebook posts and whatever else about "Zombie Jesus" this and "Ninja Jesus" that basically every day, while hearing constantly about the terrible things being done by people claiming my religion as their own. We all have our crosses to bear, if you'll pardon the expression, and we can't really get rid of this sort of thing without getting rid of that freedom of expression America holds so dear. Everyone gets to speak their mind...even the stupid people. They have the right to say whatever they like, and we have the right not to listen.