Feeling betrayed
av orthohawk, 30 juni 2015
Meddelanden: 40
Språk: English
orthohawk (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 08:53:21
Since I've been here, I've heard from a distressing number of people who have abandoned Lernu.net (and in a couple cases, even Esperanto itself!!). One common thread in all of these is the frustration felt at the lack of consistency in the enforcement of the rules when it comes to namecalling and rudeness. And by "lack of consistency" I mean when it comes to insulting conservatives and the religious here, anything goes, but oh, if we dare strike back, no matter how mildly, posts are deleted and in some cases accounts closed. I've seen it myself, but this is not just my opinion. ALL, and I do mean every single one of those people, left because of being admonished and browbeaten for fighting back against religion or conservative bashers here, or else their complaints were ignored or brushed aside with an oh-so-not-helpful "deal with it' attitude.
If you are thinking of joining the ranks of the fleeing, please reconsider. Esperanto is more, much more, than just one person (yes, sadly, the other common thread is that one person is consistently mentioned as the main culprit in the above) or even a small group of persons. If I, for example, have contributed to your discomfort here, I most heartily apologize. I am a conservative, religious person, and when my faith is attacked, I tend to attack back. So, if I have made your time here uncomfortable, don't let me run you off.
Don't let any one person run you off.
If you're still considering leaving (because of ANYone), please send me a private message. Maybe we can work something out.
Vestitor (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 10:21:46
If anyone wanted to castigate me for it, I really don't mind because I think history is largely on my side
. 
EldanarLambetur (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 12:21:22
A possible explanation for this disparity could be one of perception rather than bias. In other words, instead of all the moderators actually being biased against the religious, perhaps a difference in perception explains why it seems only the religious are being punished.
I'll give an example. I notice how you say that you'd tend to fight back if someone attacked your faith. I've come across this reaction a lot; I have an interest in how religion affects society, and often find myself analysing/criticising/discussing its finer points (as I would anything that has a major affect on society).
However, no matter how much I adhere to and make use of bayesian probability theory, I will never feel attacked or affronted by someone who criticises its worth, utility, correctness, etc. But this is often not true of religion for people. It is very hard to criticise/discuss religion when your conversant takes such things as personal attacks.
I could see how someone who responds to a critique of religion with an attack would have their post deleted, since actually lashing out at anyone is probably against forum rules, whereas even getting animated criticising a social phenomenon is not against the rules (e.g. ones text having a distressed tone when discussing honour killings).
Of course this is only a religion example, and I haven't seen the exchanges you're referencing, so interpret that however!
Venkistido (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 12:39:06
EldanarLambetur:It's hard to comment without seeing some examples.Actually, some examples, or better still, a log of the alleged activity would be useful to this discussion.
I am not too active on this forum and consequently couldn't comment on anti-religious bias here in any meaningful way. I have, however, over the years observed many acts of intolerance and disapproval expressed against people of traditional European religious convictions in a number of different Esperanto settings. How often I have sat in meetings thinking that, 'there is no one more dogmatic than a liberal'. Sometimes it is even amusing to watch how quickly the facial expressions change when people of faith mention as an aside some aspect of their religious culture in general conversations about simple things such as hobbies and pastimes.
No one likes pushers of any kind, religious or otherwise. Religious people aren't in possession of the monopoly.
Vestitor (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 15:22:10
Venkistido:Though very often in possession of the monopoly over claiming bias and victimisation. It's over the entire internet, and exceedingly tiresome.
No one likes pushers of any kind, religious or otherwise. Religious people aren't in possession of the monopoly.
Venkistido (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 15:25:55
Vestitor:I'd really love to see you - or anyone - prove that beyond reasonable doubt.Venkistido:Though very often in possession of the monopoly over claiming bias and victimisation.
No one likes pushers of any kind, religious or otherwise. Religious people aren't in possession of the monopoly.
Vestitor (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 15:28:30
Venkistido (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 15:35:54
Vestitor:I can only assume you must be joking. It sounds to me like a prime example of what I criticised.You assume incorrectly.
However, that you should regard my statement, in which I claimed no victimhood, as an example of what you criticised, helps me to understand why you have provided no evidence for your assertion.
orthohawk (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 15:45:29
Vestitor:Well, I've been a Marxist for the last 24 years and no-one mentions it because I hardly mention it; sometimes it's also unnecessary to do so, like on here. When a person makes a show of their beliefs at every given opportunity it starts to define them just a bit too much.I get that, but that's no reason to go off on someone. We as esperantists are beyond that kind of thing........or we should be..........
So, just shut up and you'll be OK, is that how it is? Why should we (and I'm including thee in this)? If we wish to mention our beliefs, whether they be Christian, atheist, Marxist or whatever, we should be able to do so without having our heads bitten off by people who don't agree with us.
Vestitor (Visa profilen) 30 juni 2015 15:46:25
I can't quite fathom what you are asking for. However, if you open your eyes and surf the popular discussion and news sites on the internet they're chock-full of religious people crying their eyes out at being bullied by a 'biased left-wing media' or 'atheists' or whatever it is this week. There are also lots of non-believers, but they're mostly on the offensive, some also being offensive, though never wailing about being marginalised and ill-treated.
The rest of the work you can do yourself. I have far better things to do.