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Middle/Medieval Esperanto

de Acobjum, 2015-julio-17

Mesaĝoj: 53

Lingvo: English

Acobjum (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-17 20:54:32

orthohawk:
Acobjum:
Tangi:Sadly the author of Esperanto paid zero attention to morphology, creating it, so it is impossible to reconstruct hypothetical earlier forms without going into conlanging too much.
It is also counterproductive, as Esperanto has to have only one style, and archaisms, dialectisms, or colloquialisms have no place in it.
This contributes nothing to what I asked. I simply asked if anyone has developed a Medieval form of Esperanto for the purpose of storywriting in a Medieval setting. Arcaicam Esperantom was developed as the Old/Ancient Esperanto and thus a beginning point to which a Medieval form would develop in a fictional setting.
on the other hand, what we term "old english" was spoken exactly in the Middle Ages (granted, the early erpoch thereof), so why not just use Araicam?
I would consider Arcaicam more along the lines of the language as spoken in the Roman era/early Dark Ages with a Medieval form occurring afterwards.

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-17 21:16:03

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Esperanto Could this count as a Medieval form?
Perhaps, though to me, Proto-Esperanto sounds more like a contemporary dialect of Esperanto - kind of like Ido.

Remember also that almost no information about Proto-Esperanto exists today - Zamenhof destroyed almost all of it. So you couldn't (say) learn it and use it in a book, unless you got creative and reinvented the many missing pieces of the language.

You might want to look at some of the other failed conlangs from the early 20th century. Novial in particular looks like a distant relative (or grandparent) of Esperanto - maybe like what Vulgar Latin is to Italian today ...

Sample:

Dises probablim esed lektural notes o textes usat da lon studentes, e preske sertim les ha bli revise repetitim durant li yares. Li resulte es ke disi verkes multim es eklekti e desfasil lekto.

rikforto (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-17 21:28:52

Acobjum:I know of Arcaicam Esperantom, but has anyone devised a Middle/Medieval Esperanto to reflect a (fictional) evolution of the language from the Arcaicam to the Modern? I believe this would make excellent fiction for many stories taking place in the Medieval period with an Esperanto in transition to its modern form.
You could probably just do some tweaks to Arcaicam Esperantom. For example, AE->EO gives ph->f. There may not have been an intermediate step, so when did it change? Was it still that way in AE? When and how did it pick up la? I'm thinking that the "i" correlatives would have evolved like this: hey->ej->i. (heyom, ejo, io.)

By positing a mixture of intermediate steps and changes that occurred before and after Middle Esperanto, you can probably leverage the AE proposal into a medieval system.

There's also some fun to be had coming up with explanations for the proverbs.

Good luck and I'd love to lend a bit of a hand if you want someone to bounce ideas off of. :->

robbkvasnak (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-18 00:19:56

Eble oni povus uzi la "latinan sen flekcioj" kiel formon de malnova Esperanto ĉar granda ero de Esperanto venas el la latina.

lapercaumore (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-18 23:59:47

robbkvasnak:Eble oni povus uzi la "latinan sen flekcioj" kiel formon de malnova Esperanto ĉar granda ero de Esperanto venas el la latina.
Mi ŝatas ĉi tiun ideon.

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-19 16:43:47

This thread typifies the reasons people outside Esperanto think Esperanto is a movement for cultists. It then gets dropped into the category containing: people who own multiple versions of Star Wars figures; mediaeval re-enactors; people obsessed with Lord of the Rings and associated fantasy worlds etc.

Esperanto is a primarily functional, modern auxiliary language. The end.

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-19 17:36:34

This thread typifies the reasons people outside Esperanto think Esperanto is a movement for cultists. It then gets dropped into the category containing: people who own multiple versions of Star Wars figures; mediaeval re-enactors; people obsessed with Lord of the Rings and associated fantasy worlds etc.
I don't see anything wrong with being interested in those things.

Honestly, I don't worry too much about what non-Esperantists think of Esperanto. If they're so small-minded that they jump to some silly judgment in the way you suggest, then that's their problem.

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-19 17:43:23

Tempodivalse:
I don't see anything wrong with being interested in those things.

Honestly, I don't worry too much about what non-Esperantists think of Esperanto. If they're so small-minded that they jump to some silly judgment in the way you suggest, then that's their problem.
Sure it is. Then English can continue being the lingua franca while the derided Esperanto remains in a position of semi-mockery.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the things I listed, but they are really a hindrance when people think of them as 'the sort of thing Esperantists are associated with'.

I think Esperantists should be concerned about how non-Esperantists think of Esperanto since it tends to be mostly misconceptions and then the question needs to be asked as to why.

Tangi (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-19 17:45:45

Vestitor:This thread typifies the reasons people outside Esperanto think Esperanto is a movement for cultists.
Well, I believe it is the pathological love of the movado to archaisms, such as sexist forms and weird spellings, like letters with diacritics and J instead of Y.
Esperanto needs to look modern, efficient, and professional, and professionalism is not compatible with dogmatism.

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-julio-19 17:53:19

Tangi:
Vestitor:This thread typifies the reasons people outside Esperanto think Esperanto is a movement for cultists.
Well, I believe it is the pathological love of the movado to archaisms, such as sexist forms and weird spellings, like letters with diacritics and J instead of Y.
Esperanto needs to look modern, efficient, and professional, and professionalism is not compatible with dogmatism.
That's really just complete rubbish. Lots of modern languages have diacritics and they are no hindrance. J instead of Y is present in most (all) Germanic languages, and others, and is well-recognised as being pronounced with the English Y-sound. It's one or the other. The spelling in Esperanto is certainly not weird.

What Esperanto needs to do is 'work'. That has already happened. The rest is twittering rubbish for the purposes of superficial discussion.

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