Tin nhắn: 11
Nội dung: English
Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 17:59:04 Ngày 02 tháng 8 năm 2015
Red_Rat_Writer (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:09:14 Ngày 02 tháng 8 năm 2015
Function: Working the way it should.
Not functioning: Doesn't work at all
Malfunction: Working, but not the way it was intended to work.
A robot that washes dishes.
Battery dies, so it doesn't work at all.
Robot starts throwing dishes at the wall and breaking them.
Funkcias
Ne fukncias
Malfunkcias
Tempodivalse (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:25:41 Ngày 02 tháng 8 năm 2015
I'm not sure what the opposite of "function" is. Malfunkcii in my mind is something like, doesn't function at all.
Tempodivalse (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:32:25 Ngày 02 tháng 8 năm 2015
Miland:Should "poor" be neriĉa? Should "dark" be nehela?"Poor" is malriĉa, surely. Neriĉa just means "not rich", which is not the same thing as "opposite of rich".
Negation is not always "opposite of", and negation is not always "absence of". For example, we have malracia, neracia, senracia. In English, the corresponding terms would be "irrational", "non-rational", and "arational", respectively. In philosophical and psychological contexts, these terms are not interchangeable.
EldanarLambetur (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:13:37 Ngày 03 tháng 8 năm 2015
- "fermi" = "to close"
This action leaves something "closed". The word for undoing this action is "open"; "malfermi" is "to open".
- "aperi" = "to appear"
This action leaves something "appeared". The word for undoing this action is "disappear"; "malaperi" is "to disappear".
- "ŝtopi" = "to plug (up)"
This action leaves something "plugged/clogged". The word for undoing this action is "unplug/unclog"; "malŝtopi" is "to unplug".
And one that I liked using in a short story I'm writing:
"stumbli" = "to stumble"
Li kuris trans la ŝtonojn, stumblis, malstumblis mallonge, sed fine tute falis. ~ He ran across the stones, stumbled, briefly found his footing (un-stumbled), but finally completely fell over.
So I wonder if "malfunkcii" could be "to un-function", in other words, to break or stop working.
orthohawk (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:08:30 Ngày 03 tháng 8 năm 2015
EldanarLambetur:I've noticed that when adding "mal" to an action word that doesn't have a clear opposite, and sometimes even if there is one, the result often means to reverse the state the the non-mal action would have made. For example:I dunno......"function" isn't the same class of action that "stumble" is. stumbling is usually thought of as a one-time, "istantaneous" act, kinda like touching (touching happens when skin contacts skin, no process involved, just a split-second act). Functioning is more of a process, or ongoing act, so while "malstumblis" I can see, I can't see "malfunkcii" the same way. we already have a word for "break" (rompi), afterall.
- "fermi" = "to close"
This action leaves something "closed". The word for undoing this action is "open"; "malfermi" is "to open".
- "aperi" = "to appear"
This action leaves something "appeared". The word for undoing this action is "disappear"; "malaperi" is "to disappear".
- "ŝtopi" = "to plug (up)"
This action leaves something "plugged/clogged". The word for undoing this action is "unplug/unclog"; "malŝtopi" is "to unplug".
And one that I liked using in a short story I'm writing:
"stumbli" = "to stumble"
Li kuris trans la ŝtonojn, stumblis, malstumblis mallonge, sed fine tute falis. ~ He ran across the stones, stumbled, briefly found his footing (un-stumbled), but finally completely fell over.
So I wonder if "malfunkcii" could be "to un-function", in other words, to break or stop working.
tommjames (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:12:23 Ngày 03 tháng 8 năm 2015
EldanarLambetur:So I wonder if "malfunkcii" could be "to un-function", in other words, to break or stop working.I wouldn't read it that way myself as 'funkcii' doesn't create any "undoable" state, unlike those other verbs you listed. For 'malfunkcii' to mean stop working it would need to be the case that 'funkcii' means start working, but for that meaning it would be 'ekfunkcii'.
I think the only plausible meaning of 'malfunkcias' would be "doesn't work". But for this I would just say "ne funkcias".
Mustelvulpo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:31:44 Ngày 03 tháng 8 năm 2015
EldanarLambetur:Li kuris trans la ŝtonojn, stumblis, malstumblis mallonge, sed fine tute falis. ~ He ran across the stones, stumbled, briefly found his footing (un-stumbled), but finally completely fell over.malstumblis mallonge - I get it but I have to pause to think about it. Something like "momente stabiliĝis" comes across more clearly. It seems like every aspect of not functioning is covered by nefunkcii and malfunkcii is rarely if ever called for. Similar to the idea that something can be neblua but malblua is pretty much impossible to define.
Something is either blue or it is not, something either functions or it does not. There really is no opposite.
Breto (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 21:10:05 Ngày 03 tháng 8 năm 2015
Mustelvulpo:I dunno about that. Thanks to negative images, we see the opposites of colors all the time. Arguably malblua is simply oranĝa, and likewise malruĝa would be verda and malflava would be purpura. Of course, just as we don't say malnorda for suda, there's no real reason to say malblua for oranĝa.EldanarLambetur:Li kuris trans la ŝtonojn, stumblis, malstumblis mallonge, sed fine tute falis. ~ He ran across the stones, stumbled, briefly found his footing (un-stumbled), but finally completely fell over.malstumblis mallonge - I get it but I have to pause to think about it. Something like "momente stabiliĝis" comes across more clearly. It seems like every aspect of not functioning is covered by nefunkcii and malfunkcii is rarely if ever called for. Similar to the idea that something can be neblua but malblua is pretty much impossible to define.
Something is either blue or it is not, something either functions or it does not. There really is no opposite.
For funkcii, though, I agree with you. I can understand funkcii "to function". I can also understand nefunkcii "to not function", or misfunkcii "to malfunction", but malfunkcii "to unfunction" is not something I can really wrap my head around. As for nefunkcii meaning "to malfunction", I'm not aware of the predominant usage, but to me "malfunction" has always meant that something is still being done, just incorrectly. Misfunkcii seems a better translation of this concept than nefunkcii, which seems as though it could describe a perfectly functional machine that is simply not being used at the moment.
orthohawk (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 21:25:40 Ngày 03 tháng 8 năm 2015
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