erinja:Ah, also -- I expect the individual in question to be back here in a day or two, guns blazing, as soon as his new account gets out of its new account waiting period for forum posts.

Oh joy. I can only imagine what treats are in store for us!

Can we agree not to provoke him? He will likely go away if he discovers he can't get a rise out of anyone. I plan not to engage with his comments (difficult, as it's quite tempting) - it's a poor use of everyone's time.

Tempodivalse:Can we agree not to provoke him? He will likely go away if he discovers he can't get a rise out of anyone.

Hard to say. Unfortunately, disagreeing with him is what seems to provoke him (voicing disagreement = oppressing him based on his religion) and I don't see the day where he will say his opinions and no one will raise their voice in disagreement. And I don't see the day when he doesn't say his opinions because when you insist on talking in a way that is different from everyone else, people will remark on it all the time. We can all just ignore it but I don't love the idea of people going around telling beginners that it's normal and "fundamental" to use "ci" in everyday speech.

He has a right to his opinions, a right to express his opinions, etc etc but the fact that it upsets him to see people disagree doesn't mean that it's a great idea to let him say misleading things all the time without a word.

erinja:

Tempodivalse:Can we agree not to provoke him? He will likely go away if he discovers he can't get a rise out of anyone.

Hard to say. Unfortunately, disagreeing with him is what seems to provoke him (voicing disagreement = oppressing him based on his religion) and I don't see the day where he will say his opinions and no one will raise their voice in disagreement. And I don't see the day when he doesn't say his opinions because when you insist on talking in a way that is different from everyone else, people will remark on it all the time. We can all just ignore it but I don't love the idea of people going around telling beginners that it's normal and "fundamental" to use "ci" in everyday speech.

He has a right to his opinions, a right to express his opinions, etc etc but the fact that it upsets him to see people disagree doesn't mean that it's a great idea to let him say misleading things all the time without a word.

The best course is probably to be direct and brief. "I find it uncomfortable when you use the intimate pronoun with me; I don't feel we have that kind of relationship. Please use vi." "I respect your religious practices have made you take a different course, but ci is only marginally used by most Esperantists. Could you please by mindful of that when commenting, especially to new learners?" "This isn't an issue of your religious beliefs, but rather a matter of [X]." Probably should let him have the last word after you've clearly made your point since getting drawn into a protracted debate only serves his interests.

rikforto:The best course is probably to be direct and brief. "I find it uncomfortable when you use the intimate pronoun with me; I don't feel we have that kind of relationship. Please use vi." "I respect your religious practices have made you take a different course, but ci is only marginally used by most Esperantists. Could you please by mindful of that when commenting, especially to new learners?" "This isn't an issue of your religious beliefs, but rather a matter of [X]." Probably should let him have the last word after you've clearly made your point since getting drawn into a protracted debate only serves his interests.

Unfortunately, statements like this just don't work with him, and I could give you all of his answers but there's no point in being his mouthpiece. I will probably just attempt to avoid any contact. At the point when you have politely asked to be called by your preferred pronoun and someone calls you by an ethnic slur, I am pretty sure the conversation is over.

I plan to just make it clear that ci is nonstandard Esperanto (if the opposite is implied), for the benefit of learners reading the thread, and refuse to respond to any subsequent remarks. I think this is the best course of action.

In the case of highly disruptive messages, PMs etc., then the administrators can be contacted as necessary.

Tempodivalse:I plan to just make it clear that ci is nonstandard Esperanto (if the opposite is implied), for the benefit of learners reading the thread, and refuse to respond to any subsequent remarks. I think this is the best course of action.

In the case of highly disruptive messages, PMs etc., then the administrators can be contacted as necessary.

I don't think the terms of service say anything to prohibit being easily offended and defensive. If a thread gradually goes off topic that is frequently overlooked, but with contentious topics like this one, if a discussion about another topic degrades into a debate about second person pronouns, I think that will be nipped in the bud. Such topics should preferably be kept to their own threads so users who aren't interested can say "Another 'ci' thread? Count me out"

I don't think the terms of service say anything to prohibit being easily offended and defensive.

Surely there is something against using slurs and trolling in general (which is unfortunately what his input has descended to). I know that in some places where I've been a mod/chanop, this kind of behaviour would have landed a long-term ban by now.

I guess the admins here like to operate with a light touch, though - I can't complain ...

Yes, light touch, and the site is generally administered by consensus. Not that this stops anyone from accusing the site of being a division of MiniTrue.

He hasn't used the slur on this site, unless you count his alter ego, whose account is now gone and who we can't prove (but only suspect) to be the same person. He used the slur on Facebook but then thought better of it and deleted the large thread containing it after he seemed to have realized belatedly that it's embarrassing to use an ethnic slur in front of a large group of Esperanto speakers.

He has been sending me a bunch of postcards, evidently the only site communication method open to him at the moment. I read only the first and ignored the rest, I assume the content is the same (very shouty) and I assume he is smart enough not to use ethnic slurs on this site under his own name, since he would be instantly banned.

We'll see. If he continues to disturb the peace he risks being banned. But you don't lose your lernu account over objectionable behavior that happened elsewhere.

erinja:if a discussion about another topic degrades into a debate about second person pronouns, I think that will be nipped in the bud.

You know, there aren't a whole lot of places on the internet where there are contentious arguments about second person pronouns.

We're weird.