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de Alkanadi, 2015-aŭgusto-19

Mesaĝoj: 52

Lingvo: English

Bruso (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-20 23:12:33

Vestitor:
Originally? Surnames evolved naturally (if used): topographical, professions, regional..etc
You're confusing surnames with bynames.

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-20 23:15:01

Bruso:
Vestitor:
Originally? Surnames evolved naturally (if used): topographical, professions, regional..etc
You're confusing surnames with bynames.
Explain the difference please. E.g. James Sadler, Charles Taylor, William Gateshead etc. How are these (naturally derived from trades and places to differentiate people) not surnames?

Bruso (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-20 23:24:41

Vestitor:
Bruso:
Vestitor:
Originally? Surnames evolved naturally (if used): topographical, professions, regional..etc
You're confusing surnames with bynames.
Explain the difference please. E.g. James Sadler, Charles Taylor, William Gateshead etc. How are these (derived from trades and places) not surnames?
Until imposed by governments, Charles (the) Taylor's children would not be named Taylor. Probably William the son of Charles (the Taylor) at first, and later William the Redhead or William the Wagoneer. Maybe both, depending on the circumstances. As long as it distinguished William from any other Williams in the vicinity. If another redheaded William moved into the village, maybe they'd have to be William the Tall and William the Short.

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-20 23:33:04

Those examples are fine, but current surnames like Johnson or Peterson are in the same league and these have origins that are not government-imposed and they were used in villages for differentiation. An existing surname like e.g. Jan van Varenburg (John of Varenburg - a place) has obvious origins.

The point I'm making is that surnames have originated naturally and been made regular by being passed on. The idea that they were nothing before a government imposed them is conspirational rubbish. No doubt governments (and all organisational society) have made good use of such differentiation, but the implication that they have been imposed is typical 'big government is scary' claptrap.

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-20 23:43:14

but the implication that they have been imposed is typical 'big government is scary' claptrap.
Seems a little confrontational.

I'm not sure that was the implication. Even if the names were imposed, that doesn't entail "big government is scary".

How did we digress onto this topic from the OP's question?

Ah, I think it was Elhana - introduced something about fraŭlino. Odd how conversations change direction like that.

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-20 23:58:06

Tempodivalse:
but the implication that they have been imposed is typical 'big government is scary' claptrap.
Seems a little confrontational.

I'm not sure that was the implication. Even if the names were imposed, that doesn't entail "big government is scary".
You did read the link posted? I've even read the book. It's more libertarian hokum peddled out of the same 'institutes' that dream up the policy that has gutted most of the social decency in the western world's economies.

vejktoro (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-21 02:07:01

Tempodivalse:

I have noticed that "Miss" and "Mrs" are often used by default for young and middle-aged/old women, respectively, but I suspect this stems from the notion that most women marry after a certain age. (It is a little odd to refer to a 75-year-old woman who's never married as "Miss" for this reason.)

Or perhaps the terms have different implications in different parts of the English-speaking world?
True, outside of title, where I live, 'Miss' is the female version of 'Sir'.. Professors are called "Sir" or "Miss", even in the Department of English.

"Mrs", means any lady anywhere; kinda vocative; the female counterpart of "Mr." As in, "Hey mister, who's missus?"

So calling a lady 'Miss' is acknowledging her position over you while 'Missus' is an equal, a friend, a stranger. The exact same for 'Sir' and 'Mr.'

Gotta be careful not to translate literally from any one dialect to another, Eo included.

vejktoro (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-21 02:11:48

erinja: but "lady" has unfortunately gotten a less respectful connotation over the years, "That lady over there" doesn't sound too nice.
Wow. Completely different here. Lady is a respectful term. I think I might get in trouble in your country just trying to be nice.

Thanks for the tip.

vejktoro (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-21 02:34:24

Vestitor:The point I'm making is that surnames have originated naturally and been made regular by being passed on. The idea that they were nothing before a government imposed them is conspirational rubbish.
True. Very recent evidence in my part of town. The grandfather's nickname (sometimes Grandmother's) becomes the locally known surname for the family. Somebody might be a Quinlan or a Jorgensen or a Mercer-Parsons as far as the Gov. knows, but the community identifies them only as a Foxy, or a Boots, or a Goatdick, or whatever. It overrides the hyphens, and ladies don't loose where they came from. (yes, even if poppy was a Goatdick)

I suppose in a generation they'll have a debate and use the Grandmothers' nicknames more equally.

Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-21 02:52:12

Wow. Completely different here. Lady is a respectful term. I think I might get in trouble in your country just trying to be nice.

Thanks for the tip.
I think it depends somewhat on the context. Where I live, "lady" simply isn't used much; you normally say "woman" if talking in the third person, or "ma'am" if second-person vocative.

In some circles it seems to be considered mildly sexist - though I'm not sure why exactly, given that the male equivalent "gentleman" has no negative connotation by default.

I think context will clear up the intention most of the time, and avoid awkward situations.

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