Mesaĝoj: 13
Lingvo: English
rikforto (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 01:31:26
Whenever I have studied a language, I inevitably reach a plateau; I slow down the rate I learn new things. In particular, my ability to understand the language progresses modestly and my ability to improve speaking and writing it grinds to a halt. Eventually I reach a critical point and I start improving again.
Any advice for getting through the plateau in Esperanto?
Please don't just tell me "Practice!" Yes, of course, and I am! But, what helped you? Any particular mid-level Esperanto works you recommend? Got a neat trick for getting more Esperanto into your brain? Want to commiserate about how "easy language" is an oxymoron"?
I'm not expecting a magic fix---though, you know, if you have one, please share.
This seems to be part of how language learning goes for me and I'm here for the long haul. Just, you know, how do you personally make it shorter?
Any advice for getting through the plateau in Esperanto?
Please don't just tell me "Practice!" Yes, of course, and I am! But, what helped you? Any particular mid-level Esperanto works you recommend? Got a neat trick for getting more Esperanto into your brain? Want to commiserate about how "easy language" is an oxymoron"?
I'm not expecting a magic fix---though, you know, if you have one, please share.
This seems to be part of how language learning goes for me and I'm here for the long haul. Just, you know, how do you personally make it shorter? 
Tempodivalse (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 02:11:21
I've always been an advocate of the "jump in the deep end" approach to learning - I have applied this in many spheres with considerable success, and have found that it greatly elevates the infamous "plateau".
What I did, once I'd gotten down the basics of grammar and a small but functional vocabulary, was to start writing new articles for Esperanta Vikipedio - short and simple at first, then gradually expanding both length and complexity of writing. It did wonders for me.
I've been suggesting this to a lot of progresantoj, but few have taken me up on the suggestion - it is rather challenging, and intimidating.
But there are several reasons Vikipedio boosts your skills quickly:
First, you get to write about topics that interest you, which is a great way to keep motivated.
Second, the medium is simple: there isn't a minimum length for new articles on Vikipedio, and you don't have to provide inline citations (though you really should). Wiki-syntax is incredibly simple.
Third, Vikipediistoj are (in general) tolerant of newcomers/progresantoj, and will correct your errors in the course of their copyediting duties (as long as it's not total gibberish; then they'll just get pissed off). You can see what edits have been made and figure out what is wrong. This is a big contrast to other language editions of Wikipedia, where full fluency is demanded from the start.
And finally - you get to be a coauthor of the biggest Esperanto-language encyclopedia ever. How cool is that
There is not shortcut to true fluency, though - sooner or later you will hit a "plateau" which necessarily takes a lot of time to overcome, because the brain simply hasn't yet finished forging the pathways relevant to your newly acquired skill.
What I did, once I'd gotten down the basics of grammar and a small but functional vocabulary, was to start writing new articles for Esperanta Vikipedio - short and simple at first, then gradually expanding both length and complexity of writing. It did wonders for me.
I've been suggesting this to a lot of progresantoj, but few have taken me up on the suggestion - it is rather challenging, and intimidating.
But there are several reasons Vikipedio boosts your skills quickly:
First, you get to write about topics that interest you, which is a great way to keep motivated.
Second, the medium is simple: there isn't a minimum length for new articles on Vikipedio, and you don't have to provide inline citations (though you really should). Wiki-syntax is incredibly simple.
Third, Vikipediistoj are (in general) tolerant of newcomers/progresantoj, and will correct your errors in the course of their copyediting duties (as long as it's not total gibberish; then they'll just get pissed off). You can see what edits have been made and figure out what is wrong. This is a big contrast to other language editions of Wikipedia, where full fluency is demanded from the start.
And finally - you get to be a coauthor of the biggest Esperanto-language encyclopedia ever. How cool is that
There is not shortcut to true fluency, though - sooner or later you will hit a "plateau" which necessarily takes a lot of time to overcome, because the brain simply hasn't yet finished forging the pathways relevant to your newly acquired skill.
vikungen (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 02:43:26
rikforto:But, what helped you? Any particular mid-level Esperanto works you recommend? Got a neat trick for getting more Esperanto into your brain?What helped me was to surround myself in the language, listen to the news in Esperanto while drinking my morning coffee, listen to music in the language while driving to work, listening to podcasts while making dinner, reading in an Esperanto book while relaxing after dinner and then maybe watch a youtube video in the evening. This made my listening skills and reading skills a million times better, but also being so exposed to the language lifted me from the plateau on all levels.
orthohawk1 (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 03:27:49
rikforto:Whenever I have studied a language, I inevitably reach a plateau; I slow down the rate I learn new things. In particular, my ability to understand the language progresses modestly and my ability to improve speaking and writing it grinds to a halt. Eventually I reach a critical point and I start improving again.The thing I found that works the best is to stop trying to learn new stuff. No new grammar (though with Esperanto the amount of grammar still not learned is probably close to zero), don't make word lists. Just read read read. Read anything. Books. Monato articles. (I even read food packages in Spanish when i hit my Spanish plateau). Even just the Esperanto forums here on Lernu or Wikipedia articles, as Tempodivalse said (thee will soon learn which posters should be emulated and which ones should not
Any advice for getting through the plateau in Esperanto?
Please don't just tell me "Practice!" Yes, of course, and I am! But, what helped you? Any particular mid-level Esperanto works you recommend? Got a neat trick for getting more Esperanto into your brain? Want to commiserate about how "easy language" is an oxymoron"?
I'm not expecting a magic fix---though, you know, if you have one, please share.
) If thee can, get a meet-up group started where thee lives (or join the group already extant if there is one). 
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 06:54:38
rikforto:Any advice for getting through the plateau in Esperanto?Having duolingo really helped me get to the next level.
Maybe, being a false beginner is helpful.
False beginner: Someone who studies a subject from the beginning again, even though they have already progressed past that point.
I think this really helps you solidify the language in your mind. Find courses and take them as a beginner again even though you already know the material.
Also, maybe don't think about the progression. Think instead about entertainment. Have fun with the language. If something is too difficult then it is frustrating. If something is too easy then it is boring. Find something in the middle, which you find entertaining.
I listen to Evildea on Youtube everyday to help with my listening skills. He is fun and full of energy. I usually watch his videos many times over.
Right now, I am trying to find a nice chat option. I heard there are some Kik groups. Also, I have tried https://kiwiirc.com/ but I need a good client for my phone when I have time.
I working on creating some children's books in Esperanto. I might start blogging on youtube by writing out a script, memorizing it like a parrot and then presenting it in an entertaining way.
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 07:19:19
Let's suppose that you have already made good use of the resources of this website. Here are some suggestions, if they help you:
In sum: use the language as much as possible, in different ways. Aim at thinking in Esperanto without any other language. For example, make up questions and their answers to yourself. Read a text without thinking of the English translation, so that you are thinking in Esperanto.
Post-beginner (after finishing the course Gerda Malaperis!):
Other books by Claude Piron, e.g. Lasu min paroli plu, Vere aŭ Fantazie. The film Gerda Malaperis! The magazine Juna Amiko, Esperanto-language comics eg Zamenhof, Tintin. Video course Pasporto al la tuta Mondo.
Intermediate:
Faktoj kaj Fantazioj by Marjorie Boulton and Paŝoj al plena posedo de William Auld, and other non-fiction eg La fenomeno Svislando, Vojaĝo en Esperanto-lando. Radio-programs or recordings of speeches.
In sum: use the language as much as possible, in different ways. Aim at thinking in Esperanto without any other language. For example, make up questions and their answers to yourself. Read a text without thinking of the English translation, so that you are thinking in Esperanto.
Post-beginner (after finishing the course Gerda Malaperis!):
Other books by Claude Piron, e.g. Lasu min paroli plu, Vere aŭ Fantazie. The film Gerda Malaperis! The magazine Juna Amiko, Esperanto-language comics eg Zamenhof, Tintin. Video course Pasporto al la tuta Mondo.
Intermediate:
Faktoj kaj Fantazioj by Marjorie Boulton and Paŝoj al plena posedo de William Auld, and other non-fiction eg La fenomeno Svislando, Vojaĝo en Esperanto-lando. Radio-programs or recordings of speeches.
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 11:02:11
It is somewhat difficult for me to comment on any plateau effect in learning Esperanto since I started learning Esperanto a very long time ago. The main thing I recall is a frustration in achieving conversational fluency.
I seem to recall having a feeling of knowing how to say what I wanted to say very early on, in terms of sentence structure, but being very slow to actually get it out.
Strangely, I don't recall having difficulty in terms of vocabulary, it just took some time mentally searching for the right word. But as I said, it all happened such a long time ago that my memory of it isn't clear.
English speakers are perhaps peculiarly advantaged when it comes to Esperanto vocabulary as so often there is some word in English (it might be obscure) which has some relation to the corresponding word in Esperanto. For example, quite easy to remember ĉevalo (horse) if you already have the English word chevalier (or cavalry) in your vocabulary, or if you know what a manger is (trough cattle feed from) then easy to remember what manĝi means.
I seem to recall having a feeling of knowing how to say what I wanted to say very early on, in terms of sentence structure, but being very slow to actually get it out.
Strangely, I don't recall having difficulty in terms of vocabulary, it just took some time mentally searching for the right word. But as I said, it all happened such a long time ago that my memory of it isn't clear.
English speakers are perhaps peculiarly advantaged when it comes to Esperanto vocabulary as so often there is some word in English (it might be obscure) which has some relation to the corresponding word in Esperanto. For example, quite easy to remember ĉevalo (horse) if you already have the English word chevalier (or cavalry) in your vocabulary, or if you know what a manger is (trough cattle feed from) then easy to remember what manĝi means.
johmue (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 11:56:21
rikforto:Please don't just tell me "Practice!" Yes, of course, and I am! But, what helped you?Well, practice. And that does mean using Esperanto instead of studying it.
What helped me was to attend Esperanto events, have friends who speak Esperanto, be in places, where Esperanto is spoken, participate in discussions in Esperanto and so on.
In the first place answer for yourself what you are learning Esperanto for. Where do you want to use it? What do you want to do with it? Then start doing it.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 13:34:45
johmue:What helped me was to attend Esperanto events, have friends who speak Esperanto, be in places, where Esperanto is spoken, participate in discussions in Esperanto and so on.I think that is vital. You are less likely to give up a language when it is used to connect with people in your life.
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-aŭgusto-25 15:45:41
It has to be said that immersion in Esperanto actually takes more effort than immersion in a national language.
If you go off to live in Italy or Germany, you really are put on the spot, in every possible situation, really doing things that are essential to daily life. If you read the paper, the ones available are in German or Italian, the TV in the background is in those languages. The people talking in bus queues, supermarkets or just in the street are also speaking the immersion language. All that passive listening helps a lot.
With Esperanto you have to do a lot of searching for areas of immersion and it's often a solo activity. You're not likely to find yourself ordering your dinner or a pint or phoning the bank in Esperanto.
Knowing grammar and having a vocabulary and being able to understand (written and oral) are one thing, but building your own sentences is always harder; especially oral conversation.
If you go off to live in Italy or Germany, you really are put on the spot, in every possible situation, really doing things that are essential to daily life. If you read the paper, the ones available are in German or Italian, the TV in the background is in those languages. The people talking in bus queues, supermarkets or just in the street are also speaking the immersion language. All that passive listening helps a lot.
With Esperanto you have to do a lot of searching for areas of immersion and it's often a solo activity. You're not likely to find yourself ordering your dinner or a pint or phoning the bank in Esperanto.
Knowing grammar and having a vocabulary and being able to understand (written and oral) are one thing, but building your own sentences is always harder; especially oral conversation.