The chase for culture in Esperanto leading us astray from the goal of international communication
ya Mysystemlater, 25 Agosti 2015
Ujumbe: 14
Lugha: English
Mysystemlater (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 4:27:55 asubuhi
The first adaptors were of the academics, with a narrow vision keen on examining the underplaying structure of the language.
The second wave of adaptors were concerned with the culture of Esperanto, seeking to elevate the status of Esperanto to the equivalent of it's peers.
There's a third wave of adaptors coming.
This group is concern only with learning language as a way to understanding the world around them.
To them, Esperanto is merely a tool.
They do not care for the logical consistency of the language.
They only care about it's ability to communicate what they mean to say.
They do not care about works created originally in Esperanto.
They only care about the works that are now accessible to them through Esperanto.
johmue (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 5:27:31 asubuhi
Mysystemlater:...Just some guesses about history of Esperanto.
Alkanadi (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 6:18:43 asubuhi
sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 11:26:39 asubuhi
At times it does seem to me that the desire to give Esperanto cultural status is a bit of a blind alley. On the other hand the various translators of high literature have certainly, historically, made a contribution to the development of the language.
But at the end of the day that you can read Shakespeare, Dickens, the Bible etc in Esperanto is of little consequence, I would even doubt that it has that much propaganda value. More useful is that you can read Wikipaedia in Esperanto.
And very useful would be if you could talk to the hotel receptionist in a foreign country in Esperanto. That would have more consequence for the acceptance of Esperanto than any amount of cultural output.
johmue (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 11:37:50 asubuhi
[list=1]
La interna ideo: People just promote Esperanto that it will be a international intercultural communication tool. Having such a tool would make the world a better place.
Esperanto as a tool for another movement: That's what the communists did between the world wars. They started teaching Esperanto to the "international working class" so that the working class could unite and lead communism to final victory.
Raŭmismo. People just use Esperanto as being part of their cultural identity.[/list]Note that I say "tendencies" not "groups". An actual Esperantist is always following all these tendencies to some degree.
Sfinkso (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 12:10:46 alasiri
Mysystemlater:Dr.Zamenhof created Esperanto in the hopes of allowing culturally diverse people communicate and understand each other.There may be a third wave of adopters coming, but do you have the right to speak for them? I am relatively new to Esperanto and you certainly do not speak for me.
The first adaptors were of the academics, with a narrow vision keen on examining the underplaying structure of the language.
The second wave of adaptors were concerned with the culture of Esperanto, seeking to elevate the status of Esperanto to the equivalent of it's peers.
There's a third wave of adaptors coming.
This group is concern only with learning language as a way to understanding the world around them.
To them, Esperanto is merely a tool.
They do not care for the logical consistency of the language.
They only care about it's ability to communicate what they mean to say.
They do not care about works created originally in Esperanto.
They only care about the works that are now accessible to them through Esperanto.
Vestitor (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 3:55:54 alasiri
sudanglo:I second this wholeheartedly. Translating Shakespeare into Esperanto or (especially) the Bible seems to me the biggest waste of effort. By now they have already been translated into almost every national language ; some several times over.
(...)
But at the end of the day that you can read Shakespeare, Dickens, the Bible etc in Esperanto is of little consequence, I would even doubt that it has that much propaganda value. More useful is that you can read Wikipaedia in Esperanto.
And very useful would be if you could talk to the hotel receptionist in a foreign country in Esperanto. That would have more consequence for the acceptance of Esperanto than any amount of cultural output.
Esperanto's 'special culture' seems to me to get in the way a little of its function as a medium of communication for everything not inside that internal culture. If Esperanto is used largely for discussing matters within and about Esperanto, it's a closed enterprise.
mkj1887 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 5:26:55 alasiri
sudanglo:More useful is that you can read Wikipaedia in Esperanto.And also, by means of Esperanto, be aware of errors and omissions in the English language version of Wikipedia (from which the Esperanto version of Wikipedia is often translated), because there is at least one person (namely, yours truly) who notes such errors and omissions. Here is the link to my blog, in Esperanto, on the errors and omissions in the English language version of Wikipedia.
erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 5:41:28 alasiri
If nothing else, if ALL you care about is people learning the language and using it, you still need to practice on something as part of your learning process, and you still need interesting literature to read. That's why it's so common for language learners to go out and buy Harry Potter in the language they are learning, even if they already read it in the original English. They want to take a familiar work that they enjoy and use it as a way of practicing their second language. Same deal with Shakespeare, etc.
Vestitor (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Agosti 2015 6:20:39 alasiri
erinja:Translating anything at all into Esperanto is never a waste of effort.Shakespeare may be the very worst choice for language learning; it's hard enough if English is your first language. If it is modernised and then translated to make it accessible, then it really isn't Shakespeare as people know it.
...(sorry about the snip!) Same deal with Shakespeare, etc.
Harry Potter, well that's different...perhaps.
I'm not trying to rubbish translated literature as a whole, I've collected some excellent translations from the web. It would be nice to see great more great quality stuff written in Esperanto rather than translated.