Vestitor:You mean like the thousands of students who study languages at school and university and still aren't good enough for everyday conversations

I have met so many people like this. There was even a girl that has a perfect 4.0. She had a special letter from the dean and everything. She appears to have a form of autism, which gives her the ability to memorize details like crazy. Yet, she can't communicate effectively with any English speakers.

Armand6:

Tempodivalse:"How would you do this in Russian?"

How would you do a phrase like 'vidi iun danci' in Russian?

That's not what I said - I said that if I'm not sure how to say something in Esperanto, and if I default to the Slavic way of expressing it, I will come to a correct answer (not necessarily the correct answer).

There are other ways of expressing yourself in Esperanto that don't correspond to what you can say in a Slavic tongue, but by and large you can speak Esperanto without those non-Slavic syntactical usages. (The one sticking point is the definite article, but it technically is optional and in any case the rules for correct usage are not hard and fast.)

In your example, I would say vidi iun dancanta/dancantan to correspond to (у)видеть кого-то танцующим, if I wanted to express this concept.

Tempodivalse:

In your example, I would say vidi iu dancanta/dancantan to correspond to (у)видеть кого-то танцующим, if I wanted to express this concept.

It's been years since I've been in a classroom, but is (у)видеть как кто-то танцует correct as well?

Alkanadi:This person says that it took a short time to learn Esperanto but it took them 20 years to learn English

That is not to be believed without some solid proofs. How can we be sure their conversation was something other than smile-and-nod if we don't have the transcript?

I have met many people who have had mild exposure to English their whole life, they have graduated with a degree in English Literature, or some type of linguistics/translation degree and they still struggle a lot with speaking, listening, reading, and writing skills.

Again, struggling a lot with English - for which tasks? Proficient in Esperanto - for which tasks? The comparison is meaningless if we do not go into details.

MrMosier:

Tempodivalse:

In your example, I would say vidi iun dancanta/dancantan to correspond to (у)видеть кого-то танцующим, if I wanted to express this concept.

It's been years since I've been in a classroom, but is (у)видеть как кто-то танцует correct as well?

Yes - and the parallel in Esperanto sounds totally fine also - vidi kiel iu dancas. Compare to the English "watch how somebody dances", which is maybe a little stiff (I would automatically say "watch someone dance" unless I was interested in the manner in which they danced).

Armand6:

Alkanadi:This person says that it took a short time to learn Esperanto but it took them 20 years to learn English

That is not to be believed without some solid proofs. How can we be sure their conversation was something other than smile-and-nod if we don't have the transcript?

Well, to quote the article Alkanadi linked:

All the students received Esperanto names, because the teacher couldn't remember Chinese names. One of them was "Neĝa" (like snow). When classes finished after 3 months, they were invited to a party in a nearby town.

Neĝa accompanied us to help as translator, and she admirably fulfilled this task. As many other Chinese people, she cannot speak English, in spite of having studied it during many years.

That means that after having studied Esperanto two hours per week during three months, (note: that is roughly 24 hours total) Neĝa was able to translate the conversation from Esperanto to Chinese and from Chinese to Esperanto... This is the same person who after many years of study was not able to speak English...

It's still anecdotal evidence, but even translating basic conversation on the spot is admirable for such a short time, and you would never ask that of a Chinese person who had a total of 24 hours of English lessons.

Rajzin:even translating basic conversation on the spot is admirable for such a short time

Leaving aside vague terms like 'party conversation' and 'does not speak English', the fact remains that Negxa had to study English for several years to be able to pick some Esperanto. A rather unclean experiment that was.

Armand6:

Rajzin:even translating basic conversation on the spot is admirable for such a short time

Leaving aside vague terms like 'party conversation' and 'does not speak English', the fact remains that Negxa had to study English for several years to be able to pick some Esperanto. A rather unclean experiment that was.

I think you were the one that said Esperanto is difficult for non-romance language speakers. In my culture, that means the burden of proof is on you because you made the statement.

Therefore, can you provide some proof that Esperanto is more difficult for Chinese speakers? I don't think you will be able to since some of the best speakers of Esperanto appear to be Chinese (probably due to their government support and excellent work ethic).

Alkanadi:

I have met many people who have had mild exposure to English their whole life, they have graduated with a degree in English Literature, or some type of linguistics/translation degree and they still struggle a lot with speaking, listening, reading, and writing skills. Usually, these people do way better at reading and writing because that is what the University focused on.

You have described my experience exactly. I am currently trying to help a person who studied English Literature in a country which has English as a second language. She has passed her teacher training in my country, which has English as the first language, but can't get her teaching registration because her level of spoken English is not sufficient.

Armand6:

Rajzin:even translating basic conversation on the spot is admirable for such a short time

Leaving aside vague terms like 'party conversation' and 'does not speak English', the fact remains that Negxa had to study English for several years to be able to pick some Esperanto. A rather unclean experiment that was.

'Had to study English for several years in order to pick up Esperanto'? What a goalpost shifter. That's the most false of conclusions. To have become familiar with the roman alphabet she could easily have had a little Italian or German or Spanish.