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To Google

od uživatele unukornulo ze dne 23. září 2015

Příspěvky: 23

Jazyk: English

Bruso (Ukázat profil) 23. září 2015 23:10:47

robbkvasnak:
Bruso:
robbkvasnak:as the innovations become old hat and they themselves disappear, the words are lost with them.
I wonder if there was ever an Esperanto word for "flivver".
Can you think of a need for this word? Modelo-to de la aero? Do they still have those things in Virginia? I had never heard of them.
The word hasn't been in common use since the middle of the last century, so it isn't going to come up in conversation anymore.

But it could come up when translating an older book, or in a historical reference.

You can find it used by searching Google (which is where we started) Books.

Cocio_16 (Ukázat profil) 24. září 2015 11:08:14

to google... What's the point of that verb in English anyway? I've never used that verb in my entire life. You're making a search. Nobody needs to know what tool you're using. Do you ever said "to library", or "to documentalist"? Nobody cares.

I suggest the verb "serĉi".

"Retserĉi", "interretserĉi", or "retpaĝserĉi" if you're a grandma and you want people to think you can use a computer.

richardhall (Ukázat profil) 24. září 2015 11:17:34

Cocio_16:to google... What's the point of that verb in English anyway? I've never used that verb in my entire life.
'What's the point' is a fair question, but the simple fact is that Google has entered the English language as a verb (and did so quite a long time ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3006486.stm)

Of course, that doesn't mean it has to be 'Esperantized'!

Ondo (Ukázat profil) 25. září 2015 10:45:51

Be careful with "gugli", especially if you are editing a dictionary defifition of the word. Google could sue you. See what happened when the Swedish Language Council was going to add the word ogooglebar (‘neguglebla’) to the Swedish Academy word list.

Google objected because the council defined the word as a "term not found using internet search engines", rather than specifically referencing Google.

"The council said the discussions with Google had taken up too many of its resources and instead removed the word entirely, hoping to foster debate about a corporation seeking to influence how Swedes use their own language."

Rajzin (Ukázat profil) 25. září 2015 11:36:07

Cocio_16:to google... What's the point of that verb in English anyway? I've never used that verb in my entire life.
Well, I use it a lot. And so do many other people I know. It's more common among the younger generations, but my father uses it too.

richardhall:the simple fact is that Google has entered the English language as a verb (and did so quite a long time ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3006486.stm)
Not just the English language. I know "googelen" is also in our Dutch dictionary. And without a doubt in many other dictionaries around the world as well.

According to Wiktionary:

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To say the verb is international is almost an understatement.

Cocio_16 (Ukázat profil) 26. září 2015 14:33:37

My point is "gugli" is a useless verb that only add useless vocabulary to the language, thus makes the language uselessly more complicated and difficult to learn.

vikungen (Ukázat profil) 26. září 2015 15:21:19

Roch:Isn't it a particularity of esperanto of being very regular and making verbs from noums... in adding a i to the root.

Maybe to write it Gugl-o, in my case, the phonetic plus the noun ending, to respect the logo, but gugli is a good verb. It's perfectly in the spirit of esperanto!
No, just no.

Brand names stick the same, like every other European language, it is that easy.

Mi ŝatas Google.

If you keep on translating every brand name nobody will understand what you're talking about eventually.

RiotNrrd (Ukázat profil) 26. září 2015 23:07:01

Roch:The word subject before the object order, is ok to me, but it has been taught that there wasn't any word order in esperanto!
Then you have been taught incorrectly.

"La" requires a particular word order: it precedes its noun, and never follows it. "Ne" behaves similarly: in most cases it also must precede what it negates; putting it after what it negates will likely vastly change the meaning of the sentence. All prepositions demand a particular word order.

You cannot take most nontrivial Esperanto sentences, randomly shuffle the words, and expect them to necessarily make sense. If Esperanto had a completely free word order such sentences would always make sense.

Esperanto has a free-er word order than most languages. But it is not totally freeform.

RiotNrrd (Ukázat profil) 27. září 2015 3:49:43

Yet "la" *always* precedes its noun.

You cannot have

Knabo la mordis hundon la.
La mordis hundon knabo la.
Mordis knabo hundon la la.

Each of those "sentences" contain the same words as the sentences you posted, yet are meaningless. Some word orders are simply incorrect. Esperanto is not completely freeform.

Tempodivalse (Ukázat profil) 27. září 2015 3:59:33

There is also a distinction to be made between "grammatically wrong" and "nonstandard". Consistent use of a non-SVO word order is not grammatically wrong, but very nonstandard. It is not controversial to say that SVO is the "default" word order - do a computer analysis of any serious work of prose. As I recall, on average, 90% of sentences use SVO.

If you want to speak standard, normal Esperanto that proficient Esperantophones speak, you use mostly SVO and diverge primarily for emphasis or stylistic reasons. If you insist on using another word order as the default (especially VOS or VSO), people will look at you a little funny, as though you were trying to imitate Yoda.

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