Mendacapote, if I didn't know you weren't a non-native speaker, I would never guess it from your command of the written language. Seriously, you write better English than most natives, without sounding stilted or using words that, yeah, are technically English, but that no one ever really uses in practice.

I don't know how you sound when speaking, but you write without an accent.

Miland:I agree with all the theoretical points made as to why E-o ought to be easier than English. The kabeinto I quoted thinks that E-ujo is like a cult, and attacks it the way that reformed alcoholics fight the 'demon drink' (recall the bottle-smashing speech by Burt Lancaster in Elmer Gantry). I have corresponded with him in the past.

But my question is not about theoretical apologetics or why his attitude might be less-than-satisfactory. My question is about actual people without backgrounds in European languages. I've posted a question in the Chinese-speaking forum in Esperanto which may hopefully elicit some interesting responses.

As for the kabeinto, there but for the grace of heaven...

I have also had my time dealing with this particular kabeinto. My main impression is sour grapes. That and no matter WHAT you say, there will always be some excuse from that one as to why you're wrong.
But what floored me the hardest is that that one actually called Don Harlow, of all people, a "provincial esperantist"! Apparently if you've never been to a meeting of any kind above the local club level (and in Don's case, even if you have), your opinion is worthless.

The following website has an article by Claude Piron which has the kind of thing I was looking for:

http://esperantofre.com/book/index.htm#asian

Here is the beginning and a selection from the text:

Is Esperanto difficult for Asians?
Sent by Claude Piron, Geneva, Switzerland.
Many people says that today, English is the world language. It is the language spoken everywhere on our planet, including in Asia. If, in a discussion on this subject, a participant express the idea that English is too difficult for the great majority of Asians, and that to force them to use it makes them feel inferior, it will be denied immediately. More yet, if he says that Esperanto offers a solution definitely more acceptable. Esperanto, they will retort, is as difficult as English for the non-European people. But these assertions are always a priori, they never emanate from a person who took the trouble to check the facts. This situation gives a quite different image than the quotations shown below.
Follows a series of statements from Asian people who testified that Esperanto is for them much easier to learn than English or other languages.

7. Qian Mingqi: "I was surprised to discover that after one semester of Esperanto I could read and write that language more easily -- and far more comfortably -- than I could English after almost nine years of study."

10. In my opinion, Chinese people learn Esperanto much more easily than European languages. Moreover, the Chinese who have previously learned Esperanto enjoy a considerable advantage over other people when they study European languages.
Xiao Peiliang

11. "We, Asians, learn Esperanto, not "more easily", but "ten times more easily" than the European languages!"
Ma Young-tae, Lecturer in Dankuk-University, Seoul, Korea.

15. I must acknowledge that only few Chinese people learn English well enough to be able to correspond in it. On the other hand, Chinese students in many cities, all over the country, learn Esperanto and reach in it a level of fluency which is comparable to their fluency in their mother tongue.
Mr. Liu Baoguo.

16. "I am an Iranian student who studies in Paris to acquire a doctorate in sciences. During my studies I always studied English and then, when I came to France, I put myself at French. I also studied Esperanto and I must recognize that it is the only language, besides my mother tongue, in which I feel well. I do not feel at ease in any other foreign language. Esperanto gave me the capacity to affirm me and to communicate with others. I think that it is appropriate to all the people as well, in particular in Asia".

Behrouz Soroushian,
Chemistry-Physic Laborato

Miland:I read the following statement on the net by a certain well-known kabeanto :

'For many peoples in the world, Esperanto and English are equally difficult, and so Esperanto has nothing special to offer. At the UK in Beijing in 2004, I met numerous Chinese who, after studying English and Esperanto for about the same amount of time, could converse comfortably in English, but had many problems with Esperanto.'

Is anyone able to answer the above argument from first hand experience?

You could translate that to esperanto and post it in the Points of view forum and then post an invite to answer in the japanese, chinese and corean forums.

Thanks, good idea, I've just done that.

I just received the following message from a Korean E-ist (Jung-Kee Lee) from which I quote with his permission:
Laux mia kompreno kaj sperto, mi ne povas konsenti je lia aserto, ke Esperanto estas pli malfacila ol angla lingvo. Cxiuj miaj lernantoj en Koreio samopinias, ke Esperanto estas pli facila kaj rogika ol angla lingvo. Probable, tiu kabeinto havas unikan sperton aux antauxjugxon.
I translate:
From my understanding and experience, I cannot agree to his assertion that Esperanto is more difficult than the English language. All my students in Korea are of the same opinion, that Esperanto is easier and more logical* than the English language . Probably, that kabeinto has had a unique experience, or is prejudiced.
* (I believe a typo happened here - ed.)

I've talked with a few Asian Esperantists about this question, and they all said Esperanto was easier than English. That doesn't mean that they all could speak Esperanto better than English - because of course they (like most of the world) have been immersed in English pop culture and have usually studied English formally for many years in school. If someone had that much immersion and formal training in Esperanto as well, I would expect them to know Esperanto much better. As a language Esperanto is obviously inherently easier than English: fewer sounds, fewer words to memorize, simpler more logical grammar, rational spelling, etc.

If English were not the dominant pop cultural and business langauge of the world, people would not find it nearly so "easy" to learn because they would not have spent their lives soaking in it. E.g. imagine an Asian person learning Esperanto and a language they're not continually exposed to in daily life through music, business, school, advertisments, films, etc, e.g. German or Dutch (languages that are somewhat similar to English), so that it's more of a "level playing field" - does anyone really think they'd find German or Dutch easier than Esperanto?

russ:Asian Esperantists like most of the world) have been immersed in English pop culture and have usually studied English formally for many years in school. If English were not the dominant pop cultural and business langauge of the world, people would not find it nearly so "easy" to learn because they would not have spent their lives soaking in it.

Sounds like you've made a good case for English having already become the International Language, making Esperanto unnecessary! But seriously, given that you will also have had this 'immersion', have you found using English easier than Esperanto?

Miland:Sounds like you've made a good case for English having already become the International Language, making Esperanto unnecessary! But seriously, given that you will also have had this 'immersion', have you found using English easier than Esperanto?

Since I am a native English speaker and have been immersed in it for decades, since my birth, of course English is easier for me than Esperanto now. But Esperanto is easier than all other languages I have studied, and that's not because those languages are inherently harder than English; it's because I didn't grow up immersed in them. If I'd grown up in China, then Chinese would be easier for me than Esperanto. I didn't, so Chinese is very hard for me.

Esperanto's sufficiently easy that it's the only language besides English I've become skilled at, enough that I use it every day fluently for ordinary use, spoken at home and written on the net. If I had grown up immersed in Esperanto instead of English, I have no doubt I would have become fluent faster and made fewer mistakes as a child learning to speak and write.

If the non-native-English speakers of today were immersed in Esperanto even just a small percentage of the amount they are indirectly immersed in English from pop culture, they'd be speaking Esperanto at least as well as English, with a lot less formal training needed. Everyone I know who's studied Esperanto and other national languages agrees that it takes a lot less learning and practice to get comfortable and competent with Esperanto than with national languages.

What's a kabeanto?