Vestitor:'Elitism' is now becoming one of those oft-used words where the meaning is not clear or shared in everyone's mind.

To me, elitism means being great in some way.

Alkanadi:

matus1940:the language of my origins is an instrument of empire

In many places around the world, the feminist movement gets their inspiration from Western cultures.

Actually, sometimes we Westerners could learn from non-Western feminist movements instead of assuming that we are leaders in this field. Or that our representations or ideas are always the most progressive.

I will give two examples.

Firstly, I highly recommand to read this online Egyptian comic. It's real food for thought on what feminism is and isn't. It's a shame the author can't publish more often, I really enjoy her work. Unfortunately, very few French feminists would agree with Qahera (the hijab-wearing woman in the comic). Most would agree with the Western-looking character.

Secondly, I was highly suprised to read this psychological research on cultural-frame switching, particularly the following quote:

It is noteworthy that independence and assertiveness seem to be dominant values emerging in the discourse of some female Hispanic groups(Farr 2005). In contrast, the social trend among Anglo women appears to have reverted toward traditionalism (e.g., moms as homemakers; Chandler 1999; Luttrell 1989; Ovadia 2001).

While this finding is surprising in itself, the most interesting part is how bicultural Hispanic women adjust to these different worldviews according to the linguistic context they are in:

As informants described their thoughts and feelings about the ads under the two language scenarios, differences in mental frameworks emerged across the two languages. In the Spanish-language sessions, informants perceived females as more self-sufficient and extroverted. This frame did not emerge as often in the English-language sessions. In fact, when interviews were conducted in English, informants evinced a more traditional other-dependent and family-oriented view of women.

Clearly the American culture doesn't always promote progressist values through the English language. Hence the importance of staying humble and being open to learn instead of being too eager to teach.

TL;DR an imperial world order leads to generalising both the briliant and the ugly aspects of a particular culture. A more balanced world order is the minimal requirement for a true conversation between all cultures where an actual exchange of ideas and values would be possible.

Alkanadi:

Vestitor:'Elitism' is now becoming one of those oft-used words where the meaning is not clear or shared in everyone's mind.

To me, elitism means being great in some way.

Yes, that's also another meaning. Elite is the pick of the best. Once it gets -ism on the end of it, the meaning changes.

Alkanadi:

matus1940:the language of my origins is an instrument of empire

In many places around the world, the feminist movement gets their inspiration from Western cultures.

A lot of Americans (such as Bernie Sanders) want to make America more socialistic because of the influence of Nordic European countries.

Perhaps cultural imperialism is not such a bad thing. Maybe, it is better for some cultures to be influenced by others.

It is good for all cultures to be influenced by all others. It is not good when a given culture, backed by overwhelming military and economic power, tends to suppress cultural differences, which include linguistic differences. Many minor languages (i.e., spoken by relatively few native speakers) are disappearing year by year. Even major languages are being displaced by English (English is so easy to speak -- poorly!). The great idea of Zamenhof was to offer a truly easy-to-learn language that would displace no other, that would have no power behind it, except the power of its own ideal: to communicate with people whose language I do not know (and whose language I do not want to be supplanted by mine).

robbkvasnak:why am I an elitist if I wrote a dissertation?
I find it very insulting to be called and elitist for what I have learned and studied and continue to study....
Should I through my dreams out and like my brother [go] hunting ducks and deer and belching in public because he thinks it's funny?

It is insulting robbkvasnak, to be called an elitist for such a thing I agree. However, it is just as insulting to be excluded from the elite because you hunt and eat duck. Both being arbitrary unfair judgements in any language.

Esperanto is either elite or base depending on your prejudice; I am elite because it's part of my life, or 'cause I've nothing to do with it - meaningless garble the lot. let us all try stay clear of the like.

vejktoro:However, it is just as insulting to be excluded from the elite because you hunt and eat duck. Both being arbitrary unfair judgements in any language.

In Europe now if you hunt and eat duck you're usually considered to be quite posh (unless you're rather isolated farmers like we were). Just goes to show the arbitrary application of some words.

It would be a shame for this thread to get derailed because someone (admittedly, the original poster) said "you are confirming the stereotype that Esperantists are elitists" and then tried to backpedal by conflating "elite" with "elitism" and claiming that both of them mean "awesome" (in which case, shame on you, robbkvasnak, for confirming the stereotype that Esperantists are awesome! Fi, fi al vi!).

I'd like to go on hearing more about what Esperanto means to various people. Having only started with it in May or June, it's really to early for me to say -- it's certainly at least a "hobby" for me at the moment, but most hobbies don't come with an inspiring "interna ideo" and the chance to make contact with a worldwide community of people who don't share your native language.

Esperanto for me is a lot more than a hobby. I'm guessing anyone who's watched my YouTube channel would have guessed that though. Here are some ways Esperanto is a part of my life:

1) My friends are majority Esperanto speakers.
2) Half the real life events I attend are Esperanto events.
3) Almost all my books are in Esperanto.
4) I film a video a day in Esperanto >.<
5) I sometimes listen to Esperanto music.
6) I make a small amount of money off Esperanto every month.
7) My career is built on Esperanto and it's community
8) Hell, it's even in my resume.

So to me it's not a hobby, but a part of who I am.

uosuaq:...and then tried to backpedal by conflating "elite" with "elitism"...

Come on. That isn't fair. This is what was said: "...you are confirming the stereotype that Esperantists are elitists"

It means that Esperantists have a higher status in society, such as academically.

Alkanadi:

uosuaq:...and then tried to backpedal by conflating "elite" with "elitism"...

Come on. That isn't fair. This is what was said: "...you are confirming the stereotype that Esperantists are elitists"

It means that Esperantists have a higher status in society, such as academically.

I really don't want to get into this argument. It was what you said *after* that comment that seemed to me like backpedalling, and at any rate, I honestly don't think there are enough Esperantists yet for there to *be* a stereotype, or a status.

Look at the comment by "Evildela" above. That's how I'd like to see this thread continue.