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Useful (or less) phrases

de Vestitor, 2015-decembro-14

Mesaĝoj: 21

Lingvo: English

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-14 23:34:32

This sentence is from the learning section here under "useful phrases":

Ĉu en ĝi eblas aĉeti ion por manĝi? - Can you buy something to eat in it?

What does it even mean?

altindiefanboy (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 02:44:51

Vestitor:This sentence is from the learning section here under "useful phrases":

Ĉu en ĝi eblas aĉeti ion por manĝi? - Can you buy something to eat in it?

What does it even mean?
Maybe "it" meaning "the store"?

Ĉu en [la vendejo] eblas aĉeti ion por manĝi?

Even then, I would still say that differently. "Ĉu en ĝi oni povas aĉeti ion por manĝi?" would be a more direct translation from English at least. I would prefer it.

opalo (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 02:54:14

My guess is that ĝi is a theatre, cinema, auditorium, or other place where temporary exit to buy a snack might be difficult.

rikforto (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 03:04:41

Vestitor:This sentence is from the learning section here under "useful phrases":

Ĉu en ĝi eblas aĉeti ion por manĝi? - Can you buy something to eat in it?

What does it even mean?
Oh boy, had to pull out my middle school grammar for this one. Knock out the prepositional phrases to get the core meaning.
Ĉu eblas aĉeti ion?
I'm not sure this is a grammatically correct sentence. I've always been a bit foggy on when you can drop the subject in Esperanto, and the answer seems to be mostly that you cannot. If you wanted "you", it would need to be
Ĉu oni eblas aĉeti ion?
unless I'm mistaken? This becomes "Can one buy something?", which is at least comprehensible.

But then, piling on the prepositional phrases leaves me back in the dark. "In it, can one buy something to eat?" I guess if "it" is a store, but that's only useful in a certain context that is not clear here??? I am so confused.

opalo (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 04:20:24

povas = can
ebla = possible
Eblas... = Estas eble... = It is possible...
Tio eblas. = Tio estas ebla. = That is possible.

Ĉu vi povas eniri? Can you get in?
Ĉu eblas eniri? Is it possible to get in?

rikforto (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 05:01:01

opalo:povas = can
ebla = possible
Eblas... = Estas eble... = It is possible...
Tio eblas. = Tio estas ebla. = That is possible.

Ĉu vi povas eniri? Can you get in?
Ĉu eblas eniri? Is it possible to get in?
I believe you...but what is the rule here? When are you allowed to drop the subject?

sergejm (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 05:19:22

rikforto:I believe you...but what is the rule here? When are you allowed to drop the subject?
Pluvas = it rains - there is no object that rain. Esperanto doesn't impersonal 'it'.
Eblas = it is possible - the same, 'it' isn't needed.
Oni povas = they can - impersonal 'they' is translated as 'oni'.
Vi povas = you can - 'you' ('vi' ) also can be used as impersonal, in meaning of 'oni', e.g. in
'kun ĉi ilo, vi povas aŭskulti kion oni parolas' = 'kun ĉi ilo, oni1 povas aŭskulti kion oni2 parolas' = 'with this device, they1 can listen that they2 speak' ('with this device, you can listen that they speak' ).

opalo (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 07:34:28

Nearly always, if the English sentence has as its subject an "it" with an unclear referent, then a bare verb will work in Esperanto.

It is humid. Humidas.
It is hailing. Hajlas.
It's getting dark. Mallumiĝas.
It seems quiet here. Ŝajnas kviete ĉi tie. (No subject, so an adverb instead of an adjective.)
It's not clear. Ne klaras.

Of course, these sentences could all be rewritten with subjects (la vetero, la ĉielo, la loko, la kaŭzo, ĉio, tio, etc.)

nornen (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 08:02:38

rikforto:
opalo:povas = can
ebla = possible
Eblas... = Estas eble... = It is possible...
Tio eblas. = Tio estas ebla. = That is possible.

Ĉu vi povas eniri? Can you get in?
Ĉu eblas eniri? Is it possible to get in?
I believe you...but what is the rule here? When are you allowed to drop the subject?
No subject has been dropped.
The subject of povas is vi. Who con do something? You can.
The subject of eblas is eniri. What is possible? Entering is possible.

The proposed "*Ĉu oni eblas aĉeti ion" is just wrong.
Either "ĉu oni povas aĉeti ion" or "ĉu eblas aĉeti ion".
The verb ebli cannot take two nominal phrases.
"*Ĉu oni eblas aĉeti ion" is as grammatical as "*Is someone possible to buy something."

rikforto (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-15 08:35:35

nornen:
rikforto:
opalo:povas = can
ebla = possible
Eblas... = Estas eble... = It is possible...
Tio eblas. = Tio estas ebla. = That is possible.

Ĉu vi povas eniri? Can you get in?
Ĉu eblas eniri? Is it possible to get in?
I believe you...but what is the rule here? When are you allowed to drop the subject?
No subject has been dropped.
The subject of povas is vi. Who con do something? You can.
The subject of eblas is eniri. What is possible? Entering is possible.

The proposed "*Ĉu oni eblas aĉeti ion" is just wrong.
Either "ĉu oni povas aĉeti ion" or "ĉu eblas aĉeti ion".
The verb ebli cannot take two nominal phrases.
"*Ĉu oni eblas aĉeti ion" is as grammatical as "*Is someone possible to buy something."
I'm mixing up ebli and povi, one of my occasional mistakes!

However, eniri is not the subject. The jargon is that it is a null-subject sentence; eblas does not need to take a subject. In English, we add the dummy pronoun "it" to do the same thing. Once upon a time I read that this was illegal in Esperanto, but apparently I was misinformed.

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