Beiträge: 10
Sprache: English
takeonene (Profil anzeigen) 20. Februar 2008 02:46:29
- ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?
- ĉu vi parolas Esperante?
Many thanks
Lam
RiotNrrd (Profil anzeigen) 20. Februar 2008 03:09:30
"Mi parolas esperante."
There is a slight irregularity here, in the sense that you will often see
"Mi parolas la hispanan."
"Mi parolas la anglan."
(etc.)
You will almost never see
"Mi parolas la esperantan."
However, you will also see
"Mi parolas hispane."
"Mi parolas angle."
(etc.)
Although "Mi parolas esperanton" is technically grammatically correct, it may not mean what you think it means. Translated into English, it actually means "I speak an Esperanto". It's grammatically correct, but somewhat meaningless, even in English.
When the word "la" is used, the descriptor is typically used as an adjective, because it is modifying the (unspoken, but implied) noun "lingvon" (i.e., "Mi parolas la anglan lingvon"). The alternative to using an adjective to describe the language that you speak (as a noun) is to describe HOW you are speaking, which modifies the verb, which thus uses an adverb.
Thus "Mi parolas esperante" means "I speak in an Esperanto manner." And the denizens of Esperantujo, over time, and for whatever reason, seem to have decided that this method is the preferable way to express it.
Note that in Esperanto, "esperanto" is not capitalized the way it is in English.
takeonene (Profil anzeigen) 20. Februar 2008 03:33:16
Your answer is clear enough.
Thanks so much for you help!
Best regard,
Lam
sergejm (Profil anzeigen) 20. Februar 2008 06:53:46
RiotNrrd:Note that in Esperanto, "esperanto" is not capitalized the way it is in English."Esperanto" is the name of the language, so it is written from capital letter; "angla", "franca", "hispana" etc. are not names of languages, they are adjectives, so they are not writen from captial letter. "Esperanta" and "Esperante" are also written from capital letter to distinguish them from participle of verb "esperi". However "esperantisto" isn't capitalized.
Miland (Profil anzeigen) 20. Februar 2008 08:24:09
takeonene:Could someone explain to me which sentence is correct:The first is correct. The word for the language itself is traditionally spelt with a capital letter, and so 'Esperanto' as the object of a verb takes the accusative ending. That is not so with other languages, as sergjm has pointed out. Here are some parallel examples (my italics). In Teach yourself Esperanto (p 57) we have 'Multaj inteligantaj svisoj lernas Esperanton ..' . In Claude Piron's essay La lingva defio we have 'Ĉar ekde kiam oni komencis praktiki Esperanton, oni konstante ekzercas sin ..' In William Auld's La Fenomeno Esperanto (p 94) we have 'Se koncize sumigi: homo, kiu havas neniun emon al internaciaj kontaktoj, neniel bezonas Esperanton ..'
- ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?
- ĉu vi parolas Esperante?
mnlg (Profil anzeigen) 20. Februar 2008 08:26:48
RiotNrrd:Although "Mi parolas esperanton" is technically grammatically correct, it may not mean what you think it means. Translated into English, it actually means "I speak an Esperanto". It's grammatically correct, but somewhat meaningless, even in English.I disagree, at least out of my experience. "lernu esperanton!", "ĉu vi konas esperanton?" "mi parolas esperanton". I have found such sentences countless times and I think they are correct both grammatically and semantically.
Thus "Mi parolas esperante" means "I speak in an Esperanto manner." And the denizens of Esperantujo, over time, and for whatever reason, seem to have decided that this method is the preferable way to express it.I must admit that I don't know what a denizen is, but... (dictionary pause)... oh, that. Well I wasn't aware of this decision. Do you have any references?
Note that in Esperanto, "esperanto" is not capitalized the way it is in English.In Esperanto no languages are, but Esperanto itself might appear capitalized sometimes to distinguish it from the present participle of the verb "esperi".
Matthieu (Profil anzeigen) 20. Februar 2008 18:26:39
RiotNrrd (Profil anzeigen) 21. Februar 2008 02:20:03
I do admit that I have seen "Mi parolas Esperanton" many times, but because of the clearly irregular use (i.e., no other language is referred to in this manner) I can only surmise that it is an idiom - quite possibly based on the esperantized version of the English expression (although that's just a guess).
Please note that I did not say that the usage of "Mi parolas esperanton" was wrong, nor that no one should ever use it. But I did point out that taken literally, it does not mean precisely what people use it to mean, and I still stand by that.
No one says "Mi parolas anglon/ruson/hispanon/ktp." That's because those forms are incorrect. "Esperanton" is logically no different. There's no harm in using it, and, in fact, many people do. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it isn't an irregularity.
mnlg (Profil anzeigen) 21. Februar 2008 08:35:42
RiotNrrd:No one says "Mi parolas anglon/ruson/hispanon/ktp."Well, of course. Esperanto is a proper name for a language. Whenever you have that, you have a noun. Oni ja povas paroli idon, interlingvaon, loĵbanon, novialon, okcidentalon, tokiponon, volapukon (and actually also urduon, latinon, bismalon, sanskriton, tok-pisinon, ĉinukan piĝinon, ladinon, papiamenton...)
If Esperanto were a proper name for an ethnic group or a land, *then* I would understand your concern.
But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it isn't an irregularity.It is perhaps an exception, but to me it has always had a well-formed reason behind it.
Miland (Profil anzeigen) 21. Februar 2008 10:58:32