Mesaĝoj: 38
Lingvo: English
nornen (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-28 16:08:43
In my country, organizations that receive donations publish annually how much money they have received in donations and what this money was used for (operations, development, personnel, projects, investment, etc). This is done in order to provide a certain degree of transparency to the donors, so that they know that their donations have been put to good use. This also motivates donors to keep on donating. It also motivates future donors to give their first donation, because it removes the doubt that the money might be used for other goals than expected.
Does lernu publish this kind of information?
Also in the "subtenu lernu!" section it says that the donations go to ESF (if I read it correctly). The only thing google could dig up on ESF is an 990-PF from 2008, but this isn't very readable for a donor who isn't a accountant at the same time. For example what are all the numbers on pages 14 ff and 34 ff?
Does lernu publish this kind of information?
Also in the "subtenu lernu!" section it says that the donations go to ESF (if I read it correctly). The only thing google could dig up on ESF is an 990-PF from 2008, but this isn't very readable for a donor who isn't a accountant at the same time. For example what are all the numbers on pages 14 ff and 34 ff?
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-28 16:36:16
Lernu doesn't publish its information separately from ESF. Since our funding comes through them (and goes to them), we don't exist as a separate legal entity. We're just a project they fund. It is not always clear whether a certain donation to ESF is coming specifically from lernu users. European bank transfers and UEA donations do come straight to us and we pass them along (or more likely, we keep them and we deduct the amount from the next payment from ESF). Paypal donations directly from this site make up the bulk of the money given specifically for lernu, the bank transfers and UEA transfers are relatively small quantities in any case. There's no total calculated on this list but if you want to do the math yourself, Paypal donations through the site are listed here) (obviously this does not include anyone who does a transfer straight to ESF, only people who clicked on a link from this site).
I don't know what a 990-PF is, but ESF has their President's reports and tax documents for 2005-2012 on their website, here. They are working on updating their own website, but if you want their more recent tax returns or president's reports, I'm sure you can write to admin@esperantic.org (in English, Esperanto, or French) and they will give it to you. 2014 would be the most recent year, since 2015 isn't yet complete and they won't be doing their 2015 taxes until sometime in 2016.
I don't know what a 990-PF is, but ESF has their President's reports and tax documents for 2005-2012 on their website, here. They are working on updating their own website, but if you want their more recent tax returns or president's reports, I'm sure you can write to admin@esperantic.org (in English, Esperanto, or French) and they will give it to you. 2014 would be the most recent year, since 2015 isn't yet complete and they won't be doing their 2015 taxes until sometime in 2016.
nornen (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-28 17:06:05
I am not talking about legal tax documents; this was just an example I managed to dig up online.
I was referring to a short summary that explains to the donors where the money went. Something like:
In 2014 we received X from ESF, Y in direct donations, Z from somewhere, A from somewhere else and B from advertising.
We spent this money on:
1) Hosting. XXX $. Tangible result: lernu is up and running
2) Web development with web studio XYZ. XXX $. Tangible result: The new lernu will have these and those features.
3) New online course XYZ with ABC. XXX $. Tangible result:
4) Staff (if you have any paid staff): XXX $. Tangible result:
5) Administrative costs: XXX $. Tangible result:
6) ...
Just in order to give a little bit of transparency where the donations go. This could be a big motivator.
Maybe something like the "laŭtaske" tab of this excel.
I was referring to a short summary that explains to the donors where the money went. Something like:
In 2014 we received X from ESF, Y in direct donations, Z from somewhere, A from somewhere else and B from advertising.
We spent this money on:
1) Hosting. XXX $. Tangible result: lernu is up and running
2) Web development with web studio XYZ. XXX $. Tangible result: The new lernu will have these and those features.
3) New online course XYZ with ABC. XXX $. Tangible result:
4) Staff (if you have any paid staff): XXX $. Tangible result:
5) Administrative costs: XXX $. Tangible result:
6) ...
Just in order to give a little bit of transparency where the donations go. This could be a big motivator.
Maybe something like the "laŭtaske" tab of this excel.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-28 17:56:04
I see what you're getting at. I don't know if that would happen anytime soon and it would be hard to do on an annual basis. For example, we get funding from ESF only once every few years, and that money is used to accomplish defined tasks until the tasks are complete (however long that takes). No annual payments for anything. Once we have paid back their investment there is a chance that we will re-found ourselves as a separate non-profit in Europe and do our own disclosures, but for the moment ESF's disclosure is all there is.
You could certainly write to ESF and say that a brief summary report on costs and what money is spent on would be a comforting thing for donors to see. It's admin@esperantic.org.
You could certainly write to ESF and say that a brief summary report on costs and what money is spent on would be a comforting thing for donors to see. It's admin@esperantic.org.
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-28 19:33:38
I think Nornen is right that knowing how their donations might be helping would motivate people. Also to give people an idea of the sorts of costs involved.
I remember reading on the ESF site about the sums they've put into Lernu - well over a million dollars altogether. I assume that was an initial boost to get things to where they are? If the actual costs for the future involve sums like that, user donations are not likely to reach that target perhaps?
I remember reading on the ESF site about the sums they've put into Lernu - well over a million dollars altogether. I assume that was an initial boost to get things to where they are? If the actual costs for the future involve sums like that, user donations are not likely to reach that target perhaps?
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-28 22:19:48
It's not well over a million. They currently say USD 765k, which is the number as of 2013 and is probably about right, even as of now. That covers the 13 or so years of lernu's history, the site's original development, and one redesign in 2005 or so, plus the money that went into the current redesign that is currently in development.
User donations are not likely to reach sums like that, but we hope to reach a kind of self-supporting steady state through donations and ads, at least to keep the site operational and maintained. A large redesign like the one we are working on now would almost certainly require some kind of outside funding, but that can't be helped. There isn't a lot of big money in the Esperanto world, I would say that ESF is about as good as it's going to get, unless you succeed in attracting the attention of the one or two very wealthy individuals who have given to Esperanto projects. EU funding is another strategy, some Esperanto-related projects have succeeded in attracting EU cultural funding through careful design of programs to relate to EU goals, and partnering with non-Esperanto organizations for these projects. Those projects are generally not so direct in their link to Esperanto, otherwise they likely wouldn't have gotten the funding in the first place.
Money in the internet is a perpetual issue, especially if you want to keep something free. You used to hear a lot more about LiveMocha, till they started charging for many services, and now you only get the most basic resources for free there, and I feel like I never hear their name anymore.
User donations are not likely to reach sums like that, but we hope to reach a kind of self-supporting steady state through donations and ads, at least to keep the site operational and maintained. A large redesign like the one we are working on now would almost certainly require some kind of outside funding, but that can't be helped. There isn't a lot of big money in the Esperanto world, I would say that ESF is about as good as it's going to get, unless you succeed in attracting the attention of the one or two very wealthy individuals who have given to Esperanto projects. EU funding is another strategy, some Esperanto-related projects have succeeded in attracting EU cultural funding through careful design of programs to relate to EU goals, and partnering with non-Esperanto organizations for these projects. Those projects are generally not so direct in their link to Esperanto, otherwise they likely wouldn't have gotten the funding in the first place.
Money in the internet is a perpetual issue, especially if you want to keep something free. You used to hear a lot more about LiveMocha, till they started charging for many services, and now you only get the most basic resources for free there, and I feel like I never hear their name anymore.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-29 07:25:40
erinja:The bottom line is that the site can OPERATE on advertising revenue alone, in the sense that it can run and be online. But for site maintenance and keeping the site fully operational... we actually need the donations.I hope that these people who maintain the site are paid a decent wage because it is complicated work.
Google Ad revenue is great but I heard Amazon affiliate linking brings in way more revenue. Why not do both? It just takes a little time to set up.
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/
The TYT network has an enormous viewer base. It is the number one news network online. The lead host of the show says that they get a lot of their revenue from Amazon affiliate links. If I remember correctly, I think he said that he gets 'most' of their revenue this way.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-29 16:52:59
Alkanadi:It's less than the market rate. But Esperanto people tend to get upset if you pay the market rate for technical work, somehow there is this expectation that Esperanto work should come free or cheap, though it costs the same effort as any other category of work.erinja:The bottom line is that the site can OPERATE on advertising revenue alone, in the sense that it can run and be online. But for site maintenance and keeping the site fully operational... we actually need the donations.I hope that these people who maintain the site are paid a decent wage because it is complicated work.
Google Ad revenue is great but I heard Amazon affiliate linking brings in way more revenue. Why not do both? It just takes a little time to set up.For the new site, we'll see. We are not putting any extra effort beyond basic maintenance in the old site at the moment.
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/
The TYT network has an enormous viewer base. It is the number one news network online. The lead host of the show says that they get a lot of their revenue from Amazon affiliate links. If I remember correctly, I think he said that he gets 'most' of their revenue this way.
I have never heard of TYT but if you are a website that promotes a lot of books, I can imagine making a good income from linking to those books as an Amazon affiliate. There aren't a huge number of Esperanto books on Amazon, and I personally see it as a bit problematic to direct beginners straight to Amazon for Esperanto books, when the Esperanto organization book services (which beginners have likely never heard of) have a much bigger selection.
When we launch our new course, we do also envision selling it in book form eventually, though not right away. It would be available for free online, but also purchasable as a book for those who want to study offline. That would also be a sort of fundraiser, selling portions of the site's content in paper form for those who are interested.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-30 09:05:02
nornen:In my country, organizations that receive donations publish annually how much money they have received in donations and what this money was used for (operations, development, personnel, projects, investment, etc).Same with Canada
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2015-decembro-30 09:20:16
Vestitor:I remember reading on the ESF site about the sums they've put into Lernu - well over a million dollars altogether. I assume that was an initial boost to get things to where they are?OMG! I hope that is not true. I can create this site and make it even better (such as better functioning and more user friendly forums) in less than 1 day. And, it would be a thousand times more maintainable. The only thing I would struggle with is the dictionary and translating the site to multiple languages because I don't speak multiple languages.
I built a website for my current place of employment and they were thrilled with the results. It took me about 2 hours and I added so much more functionality than their previous crappy website.
If you want to re-design the site from scratch, you can pay me a million dollars for one day's work.
However, maybe Lernu was so expensive because it was created before turn-key, server-side software was widely available.