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What is "Smoothie" in Esperanto?

Tsahraf-tól, 2016. február 9.

Hozzászólások: 17

Nyelv: English

opalo (Profil megtekintése) 2016. február 10. 13:13:10

Maté is mateo. Even the old Wells dictionary (1969) has that one. More specifically: matea herbo and matea teo.

What would be a reasonable kunmetaĵo for karaoke? Videokantoludo? Fortunately everyone on Planet Earth already knows what karaoke means.

The advantage of kunmetaĵoj is that they don't exoticize and don't need explaining. But sometimes you're better off explaining.

johmue (Profil megtekintése) 2016. február 10. 15:49:21

To me "fruktokirlaĵo" estas tute bona solvo. I would understand it right away.

But in general things like that are hightly dependant on the cultutal context. For example in my environment "Mateo" is this drink.

erinja (Profil megtekintése) 2016. február 10. 16:28:49

Tsahraf:"Pulpajxo," "pulpi," and "pulpo" are all not in the lernu vortaro either. I would not connect "pulp" with blended fruit, but with the inside meat of a fruit anyway.

We do not use "lakto" in our smoothies, unless coconut milk counts as "lakto."
That is actually another question: in English, "milk" can refer to most liquids of biological origin that are smooth and white, even if they are from plants. Is this the same in Esperanto, or does "lakto" only refer to mammalian produced milk?
The lernu vortaro is far from complete. If you don't find a word in it, use vortaro.net. Your lernu account also works for logging into that site.

Pulpo is the inside of fruit but the -ajx- is the clue that this is something other than fruit. In my opinion, in this way, Esperanto provides a useful way of distinguishing between milk-containing smoothies (fruktlaktajxo) and non-milk-containing smoothies (fruktpulpajxo).

Karaoke is pretty international, everyone calls it that, so in this sense, karaokeo is a fine Esperanto word under the 15th rule.

Vestitor (Profil megtekintése) 2016. február 10. 18:33:27

opalo:
What would be a reasonable kunmetaĵo for karaoke? Videokantoludo? Fortunately everyone on Planet Earth already knows what karaoke means.
erinja:Karaoke is pretty international, everyone calls it that, so in this sense, karaokeo is a fine Esperanto word under the 15th rule.
This is pretty much the point I'm already making. It's obvious why Karaoke was adopted because rendering it in Esperanto seems sort of redundant (though it's perfectly possible and valid).

In this thread there are how many various explanations for smoothie? The word is becoming ubiquitous, like it or not, though perhaps not in every language.

It's like the word "gentleman". Leaving aside the origin (see etymology of genteel related to gentile and gentil in French or Spanish) it has come to represent a sort of stereotypical English fellow of birth and manners. Despite the word 'Heer' in Dutch, which means the same, the world Gentleman is used with separate connotations. It's in German too and Spanish and probably elsewhere.
In Esperanto agrabla nobla viro is surely a true translation of that meaning, but Ĝentlemano is used.

What is the actual methodology in Esperanto to decide when a word ought to be adopted or a new word coined? In the media world which spreads words internationally like wildfire now - which is why English increasingly adopts foreign words and other languages are assimilating English words at an accelerated pace - the words become standardised. These are the words that keep cropping up here, the products, exported cultural words etc.

erinja (Profil megtekintése) 2016. február 10. 22:03:39

Vestitor:What is the actual methodology in Esperanto to decide when a word ought to be adopted or a new word coined? In the media world which spreads words internationally like wildfire now - which is why English increasingly adopts foreign words and other languages are assimilating English words at an accelerated pace - the words become standardised. These are the words that keep cropping up here, the products, exported cultural words etc.
Why would you assume there is a methodology?

People and institutions propose words and then speakers of the language either use them or use something else, and then some years down the line, we see how the usage shakes out.

In many cases there's both an assimilated form and a derived form (biologio vs vivscienco). It doesn't even matter that much what the Akademio suggests. Usage went the opposite way from their suggestion on "computer" (they suggested komputero or komputoro, I forget which, but usage ended up favoring komputilo).

Vestitor (Profil megtekintése) 2016. február 10. 22:44:38

erinja:

Why would you assume there is a methodology?

People and institutions propose words and then speakers of the language either use them or use something else, and then some years down the line, we see how the usage shakes out.

In many cases there's both an assimilated form and a derived form (biologio vs vivscienco). It doesn't even matter that much what the Akademio suggests. Usage went the opposite way from their suggestion on "computer" (they suggested komputero or komputoro, I forget which, but usage ended up favoring komputilo).
Well since there is strong position held with regard to things like revisionism and an official body overseeing the language, I assumed it might be a bit more structured than seeing how things shake out though I realise forcing matters officially tends to not always work.

I'm not surprised vivscienco didn't trump biologio. The former, being very literally 'life science' is not specifically biology; there is a group of disciplines under the term life sciences, though I suspect it's probably more due to the fact that many languages have a variation of the word biology in their lexicon.

So in the same way, to return to the topic, if many languages end up using the English word 'smoothie' why should Esperanto be different and bother coining difficult compounds?

erinja (Profil megtekintése) 2016. február 11. 0:43:17

Vestitor:So in the same way, to return to the topic, if many languages end up using the English word 'smoothie' why should Esperanto be different and bother coining difficult compounds?
See above. People come up with terms - usually, when a new word wants coining, I see both a derived term and an assimilated term. Then people hear about them and choose one, or use the one they hear, or use the one they prefer, and eventually most Esperanto speakers agree. If it becomes a common word. If it's not common then variants may last for years.

Sometimes Esperanto ends up with the assimilated term, sometimes with a derived term, even in cases where something assimilated would have seemed appropriate. Lots of languages have some variant of "mobile" to refer to a mobile telephone, but the accepted word in Esperanto ended up being "posxtelefono". That's the way the community ended up deciding!

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