Príspevky: 29
Jazyk: English
Starkmann (Zobraziť profil) 27. februára 2016 21:02:35
Wow! This text is teeeeeny!
Okay, so I'm doing all my research of Esperanto, hoping to start full-time self-studying come June. In my research, I've come across online what seem to be some older grammar and learning gems, for example...
* A Complete Grammar of Esperanto by Ivy Kellerman
* The International Auxiliary Language Esperanto Grammar and Commentary (old but good) by George Cox
I've also found older dictionaries and similar tools.
My questions: are these still relevant? If so, are there cautions to be aware of? Has some of, or enough of, the grammar changed to make these older works void now?
I'm under the impression that these works are still good and that very few changes have been made over the century, but I'm just trying to get a hold on how they hold up today and what's out there that's better, if anything.
Thanks very much,
Keith
Vestitor (Zobraziť profil) 27. februára 2016 22:18:08
Seriously though, you can learn Esperanto from these books, but it's probably more fun to use something like Teach Yourself Esperanto or follow the courses here, or go through the Duolingo Course.
Bruso (Zobraziť profil) 27. februára 2016 22:39:14
Starkmann:Has some of, or enough of, the grammar changed to make these older works void now?If you really want to learn grammar instead of an endless list of stock phrases, the oldies are much better.
You won't find words like "interreto" in the old books, however.
Starkmann (Zobraziť profil) 27. februára 2016 23:09:41
Oh, I most definitely plan to use Lernu!'s courses and, perhaps, Duolingo and others. I just became aware of the current (but older) online resources, and need information about there relevancy.
Bruso,
What?? I won't find "interreto" in the oldies? But what about that picture in the early 1900s of the guy with a cell phone? I mean, that was real, wasn't it? He had to have had an iPhone too, didn't he? If not, I give up! I'm deleting all of those oldies right now! (Ha)
Thanks much,
Keith
Vestitor (Zobraziť profil) 27. februára 2016 23:26:36
Bruso:I assume that by 'endless list of stock phrases' you mean Duolingo? The thing is it actually does teach relevant grammar 'in the field' as it were.Starkmann:Has some of, or enough of, the grammar changed to make these older works void now?If you really want to learn grammar instead of an endless list of stock phrases, the oldies are much better.
You won't find words like "interreto" in the old books, however.
Trudging through dry-as-dust grammar books doesn't make a beginner a superior Esperantist (it probably bores him stiff within an hour and puts him off).
Bruso (Zobraziť profil) 27. februára 2016 23:35:51
Vestitor:No, I never looked at Duolingo.
I assume that by 'endless list of stock phrases' you mean Duolingo? The thing is it actually does teach relevant grammar 'in the field' as it were.
Trudging through dry-as-dust grammar books doesn't make a beginner a superior Esperantist (it probably bores him stiff within an hour and puts him off).Believe it or not, some of us find Ana Pana boring and dry-as-dust.
robbkvasnak (Zobraziť profil) 28. februára 2016 1:45:27
But if you are interested in learning/acquiring general knowledge of Esperanto for use in everyday life, even the first book every published in English (which is probably the interface language you will be using) will be just fine.
I recently reread "The Good Earth" by Pearl Buck, published (in English) about 100 years ago. If I had not been educated in (American) English with regards to the history of English lit, I would have had problems with parts of the book. If I were to read a similar book printed in Esperanto 100 years ago, there would be no question that I would understand everything (from a modern view of the world, of course).
Vestitor (Zobraziť profil) 28. februára 2016 2:00:19
Bruso:I am one the 'us'. It's not terribly exciting, but then neither are a lot of the ancient Esperanto grammars at places like the Internet Archive.
Believe it or not, some of us find Ana Pana boring and dry-as-dust.
I never thought I would say it, but I don't think poring over texts is the most efficient or pleasurable manner of starting to learn a language. I've done it many times in the past and although I succeeded, the journey always felt overly hard.
Of course a person needs to have a dictionary (and know how to use it), and some sort of reference grammar, but most of the learning comes from using the language, listening to the language, making mistakes. Grammar is referenced and then you try again and again. For Esperanto, which apart from the meetings is a written medium for many, perhaps people get a little hung up on grammatical perfection. I still make the odd mistake in Dutch after 18 years, but I no longer run to the grammar books, they bog you down.
erinja (Zobraziť profil) 28. februára 2016 3:09:17
Other people find grammar dry as dust and want to learn by means of a story or by means of these sentence translation methods. Most instructional stories are not super interesting in any case, because they are trying to teach you greetings, everyday words, etc.
For me personally - I am fine with dry grammars that comes with some lame reading and some questions and short translations to do. But I try to get myself reading real texts as soon as possible, things that I actually enjoy, to practice the language.
Alkanadi (Zobraziť profil) 28. februára 2016 8:00:25
Starkmann:My questions: are these still relevant? If so, are there cautions to be aware of? Has some of, or enough of, the grammar changed to make these older works void now?The old grammar books are still relevant. Maybe a few things have changed since then but not by much.
I am going through some of these books myself and I find that they are very good.
Esperanto, as a concept, isn't very open to reform because people fear that it could break up into dialects. Stability of the language is more important to most Esperantists, which is why it hasn't changed much and the old books are completely relevant.