What do you consider 'fluent' in Esperanto? What's your next language goal?
av appleeclipse, 20 mars 2016
Meddelanden: 24
Språk: English
appleeclipse (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2016 22:03:16
I feel at a standstill with Esperanto so I'm curious as to what people think, and what people want to progress to next within the language, or another language.
robbkvasnak (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2016 22:21:54
I am not fluent in talking about cars, in general, though. My mechanic uses expressions that I don't understand. He has to explain to me what he means. I cannot talk about fly fishing in any language since I know nothing about it.
nornen (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2016 22:30:29
appleeclipse:Do you consider fluency to be in speaking, writing and reading, all with perfect grammar?I think this requirement is a bit high. Most if not all of us wouldn't be fluent in any language, not even our own, when held to this standard.
jennazenna (Visa profilen) 21 mars 2016 00:07:40
robbkvasnak:Once you stop using a language its knowledge in your brain starts to atrophy. Just knowing the vocab and expressions in your text books or lessons is NOT fluency in the language. Fluency implies knowing how to speak (competence) AND applying that knowledge (performance) in a grand number (but not all) situations. For example, I am fluent in American English in my fields (second language acquisition, culinary arts, everyday usage). My Esperanto has holes in its vocab - I am just now learning the parts of a car because we have started speaking more Espernto at home and now also talk about the cars we own (getting them repaired, washing them, etc). I lived in Germany for 25 years and there are some things that I can express in German about German life and I know no English equivalents for. I am now translating my dissertation into Esperanto and thereby discovering that I need to develop a vocab for this particular subject.I think that your ability to discuss an unfamiliar topic like fly fishing has nothing to do with language fluency but more to do with background and experience. A bit of study about the concepts and vocab can go a long way in those situations (fishing, astronomy, auto mechanics, rappelling, investing, sewing, etc) whether it's your first language or fourth language.
I am not fluent in talking about cars, in general, though. My mechanic uses expressions that I don't understand. He has to explain to me what he means. I cannot talk about fly fishing in any language since I know nothing about it.
In my field (language study/ language interpreting/ language teaching) the prevailing wisdom is that fluency comes after continued study for a number of years (5-10 years, depending on how often and what situations and what sort of immersion is available in that language). For example, if you move to another country and live with that language, you will learn it much faster than just taking high school or college classes.
Every language can offer decades of refinement; one can never know all the vocabulary for all possible topics. Even in one's first language, one can always learn new subjects and new vocabulary, but that doesn't mean that one is not fluent in the language per se. Just finding a new new topics to explore with the language.
Your dissertation translation project sounds fascinating!! What topic is it? Best wishes for the translating work.
thelancehall (Visa profilen) 21 mars 2016 01:15:47
Of course, people that don't have any experience with a technical area (like cars) are going to have to use general terms like "part" or "thing" where an expert is going to use correct industry terms.
Reading this, I got curious: the Economist reports that most native English speakers have between a 20,000- and 35,000-word vocabulary. Non-native English speakers reach a 10,000-word vocabulary living in a native, immersive environment. If you had to put a number to it, that seems like a good goal for a second language!
Vestitor (Visa profilen) 21 mars 2016 01:52:26
nornen:I very much agree. I would say that fluency implies the ability to have usable access to elements of a language, enabling effective communication. Not necessarily all 'high level' vocabulary and faultless grammar, but definitely being in control of whatever elements one is employing.appleeclipse:Do you consider fluency to be in speaking, writing and reading, all with perfect grammar?I think this requirement is a bit high. Most if not all of us wouldn't be fluent in any language, not even our own, when held to this standard.
If you think about your own language and how you can do stuff like rapidly taking down phone messages and not faltering in a reply when a random person in the street asks a question, that sort of command is fluency.
robbkvasnak (Visa profilen) 21 mars 2016 03:27:58
Do, jes, se vi povas uzi tiujn fonemojn por priskribi kaj komprenigi pli kompleksajn ideojn, bravo!
nornen (Visa profilen) 21 mars 2016 04:03:16
vejktoro (Visa profilen) 21 mars 2016 04:03:29
Alkanadi (Visa profilen) 21 mars 2016 06:09:13
appleeclipse:Do you think someone is ever truly fluent in a language?Yes. I am fluent in English. I have seen people who are fluent in a second language as well.
Do you consider fluency to be in speaking, writing and reading, all with perfect grammar? Something else?No. We can't even achieve perfect grammar in our own native language.
When someone learns a language, they struggle to form sentences. Their speech is broken and choppy. Fluency is the opposite of that. Also, people should be able to clearly understand the person.
I feel at a standstill with Esperanto so I'm curious as to what people think, and what people want to progress to next within the language, or another language.What is your level of Esperanto? I felt like I was on a plateau before, but then Duolingo came along and it is enough to keep me entertained. I usually spend about 20 minutes a day on it.
Are you looking for ideas on how to improve your Esperanto level or are you looking for ideas on how Esperanto can be used practically in your life?
Maybe, you just need a challenge. If you can tell us what your level is then we could suggest a project that is more challenging for you.