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How long does it take to understand a language (not just learn it)

від FoxtrotUniform, 21 березня 2016 р.

Повідомлення: 14

Мова: English

FoxtrotUniform (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 11:08:14

I've finished he Duolingo course. I've come here to expand on what I've learned. Right now I'm in the point where I'm translating everything I say into Esperanto, trying to keep in mind all the grammar rules I've learned. This is the exact same way I spoke Spanish when I took it for two years in high school. I'm still ving trouble remembering the accusative case, and sometimes I remember it with the adjective but not with the noun. Recently I came up with this gem:

I havas pli junan fratino.

Yikes!

I am also a CODA (Child of Deaf Adults) and had an older brother who talked to me and had aunts and uncles who made sure that I got lots of exposure to spoken English as an infant, so that by the time I started school I understood both English and ASL equally well.

But I can express something in English without first running it through ASL first. And I can sing something in ASL without cranking it through English first.

Without total immersion, how long will it take me to get to the point where I can understand and use Esperanto without first cranking it through English? Or is it so different for every person that the question has no definitive answer?

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 13:21:17

Part of the answer is in your own question. Usage and practice. Things have to become a sort of motor skill before you can perform them without concentrated effort. Tat means reading, writing, speaking if possible, though I suspect not many Esperanto learners get to do this quite as much.

How long did it take you to become fluent in English (or any other language)? If you take the rough estimate that Esperanto is supposed to be "ten times" easier to learn, you can adjust your expectation accordingly. Also the difference with regard to organised, concentrated adult learning rather than the partially passive learning of childhood which is over a longer period.

Alkanadi (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 13:44:20

This chart shows that it takes about 600 classroom hours to become good at Spanish. Esperanto takes 150 hours on average. It is 4 times faster to learn Esperanto.

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I hope this gives you a good idea. Keep in mind that the chart is for classroom hours and does not include time spent outside the classroom.

I bet that you can become really good within a year.

Alkanadi (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 13:49:51

Esperanto at Standford University.

"If you come to class and do the homework, I personally guarantee that, unless you have specific learning disabilities, you will be reading, writing and conversing in Esperanto after only 3 Academic Quarters of study. How many language courses can even guarantee that you'll be able to speak using the past or future tense in just one year, let alone learn the past, present and future in the first lesson?"

http://www.esperanto.org/stanford/garantio/

This is based on a 2 hour class per week plus homework.

Серёга (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 13:50:08

The russian have been learning by me during 41 years and I am a stupid about it.

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 13:57:23

That is just learning it (addressed in the parenthesis by the OP).

There are plenty people who have had more than 600 classroom hours learning Spanish who still have an inadequate grasp. 600 hours is what...3 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 months? 1.5 hours a day for a year? No-one gets "good" at Spanish from that.

Alkanadi (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 14:01:19

Vestitor:That is just learning it (addressed in the parenthesis by the OP).

There are plenty people who have had more than 600 classroom hours learning Spanish who still have an inadequate grasp. 600 hours is what...3 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 months? 1.5 hours a day for a year? No-one gets "good" at Spanish from that.
About 1 hour a day, plus homework, for about a year and a half.

These are just statistics from the FSI.

Miland (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 14:04:43

FoxtrotUniform:..is it so different for every person that the question has no definitive answer?
In my view, that is the case. But you can measure yourself by attending Esperanto events and seeing how well you can follow talks or conversations in Esperanto, and how well you can express yourself in Esperanto without often looking up a dictionary.

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 14:19:17

In my estimate for the average person (so not established polyglots), it takes at least 5 years to gain genuine mastery over a target language, especially if it is a person's first foreign language. This includes fairly intensive usage and immersion, which is the basis for being exposed to many different situations for using the language and hearing multiples of examples. I'd say it's something closer to 10 years.

It's well-known that thousands of students sit through classroom study for a similar 5 years and come out the other end with a limited grasp. I think these classroom hours estimations mislead people.

erinja (Переглянути профіль) 21 березня 2016 р. 15:16:24

FoxtrotUniform:Without total immersion, how long will it take me to get to the point where I can understand and use Esperanto without first cranking it through English? Or is it so different for every person that the question has no definitive answer?
There is no definitive answer. It depends a lot on your natural skill and how much time you put into it. If you study every day, you will progress faster than if you look at it once a week. 15 minutes a day is probably more effective than an hour once a week.

There's no real substitute for an immersion environment so I really encourage you to try to make it to an Esperanto event if you can. There are more smaller local ones than you realize and there may be one in not-too-bad distance from where you live. You can get far toward your goal by practicing your listening (radio news and podcasts are great) and speaking (Skype). But even with a lot of reading, writing, and online chat, you will get to speed more quickly than you think once you finally make it into an immersion environment.

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