Vestitor:Sure. Let me tell you that the city I live in, Utrecht, closed down the 100+ room red light district two years ago. Now the prostitutes (which are in every city in the world, including yours) end up streetwalking, whereas before they had police protection, safety in a controlled area and they paid taxes. It is only because Amsterdam has a notorious red light district that you are mentioning it. Germany has 20 times as many. What are your prostitutes doing? Hiding it away is not addressing it.

I "only mentioned it" because you claimed Holland being "overly permissive" was a myth. I certainly don't have the tools or the wherewithal to address the causes and solution to the sexual exploitation of women. I just know that prostitution is bad for women and a society that allows people to legally profit on the sexual exploitation of others is "overly permissive.

Vestitor:Give it a rest. You know as much as everyone else the lists and lists of dishonest and manipulative marketing campaigns. Or maybe you don't listen in class? Or maybe the course creators carefully market the information to you to shape it's presentation? My girlfriend also works in marketing and advertising and even she admits it's not straight.

So in other words, no I won't provide examples, why would you ask?

I have never claimed that there isn't fraudulent marketing campaigns and advertising. I think that any field--even custom tailoring--is open to corruption. I don't think that taints the entire field, however.

I have given you ample opportunity to provide examples of the many libelous claims you have made and you have ignored every one. Apparently you think everyone (except you, apparently) are susceptible to corporate Jedi mind tricks, and are duty bound to expose the nefarious powers that be by providing generalities that you can't be bothered with substantiating--in between defending window prostitution.

FoxtrotUniform:I'm unsure what "heuristic" means.

I have been trying to figure that one out for years. I work in the IT field and sometimes there is something called a Heuristic scan. I still don't know what that means.

I guess, it means looking at something from an outside perspective. So a Heuristic scan must be a scan of meta data. I don't know.

Alkanadi:

FoxtrotUniform:I'm unsure what "heuristic" means.

I have been trying to figure that one out for years. I work in the IT field and sometimes there is something called a Heuristic scan. I still don't know what that means.

I guess, it means looking at something from an outside perspective. So a Heuristic scan must be a scan of meta data. I don't know.

It is just pseudo-intellectual waffle for saying "finding out".
The greek "εὑρίσκειν" means "to find", and its perfect form "heureka" (ηὕρηκα) means "I found".

A heuristic scan is a scan which can "find" malware without knowing its exact design. In computer science "heuristic" can be the opposite of "deductive".

FoxtrotUniform:
I "only mentioned it" because you claimed Holland being "overly permissive" was a myth. I certainly don't have the tools or the wherewithal to address the causes and solution to the sexual exploitation of women. I just know that prostitution is bad for women and a society that allows people to legally profit on the sexual exploitation of others is "overly permissive.

It doesn't allow others to profit legally. The plan was to let the women profit from it directly, rather than pimps; not 100% successfully, but no-one has solved this problem. Prostitution is legal or semi-legal (tolerated) in nearly all of Europe, some Asian countries, South America etc, are all these overly-permissive? It's not 'promoted' in the Netherlands, it's as discouraged as anywhere else, but the idea is that pimps and crooks can be caught better because thy can't resist making easy use of the open system for their activities. That's how the Utrecht sex-boats were shut down.

FoxtrotUniform:
Apparently you think everyone (except you, apparently) are susceptible to corporate Jedi mind tricks, and are duty bound to expose the nefarious powers that be by providing generalities that you can't be bothered with substantiating--in between defending window prostitution.

No, I do not think that 'everyone else' is susceptible. It just happens that I am the one taking this position here in this thread, rather than someone else who also has this view. It has been shown repeatedly that people do not act rationally in many situations, which is how marketing, advertising, propaganda (same thing) etc can function. If hyper-vigilance was really the reality, none of them would be able to operate at all.

I'm also not defending window prostitution I'm correcting the common error I encounter where people from the U.S. seems think that this country is a cess-pit of drugs and prostitution because a few people visited two streets in Amsterdam. I am regularly stopped by Americans/Canadians/Australians and my own folk from England, asking directions to either "coffee shops" or prostitutes. Maybe those critics should ask themselves who is at fault, because most people here don't come into contact with it at all.

Bemused:Vestitor= troll.

No, I don't think this is correct. If anyone knows trolls, I know trolls, and I would not put Vestitor in that category at this time*. He's argumentative, yes, and tends to have a more black-and-white take on things than many, but those things on their own do not make him a troll. I don't believe his intention is to actually stir up trouble generally, which is the intention of trolls. That the sharing of his opinions sometimes meets with opposition does not necessarily implicate him as a troll, either, but simply one with controversial opinions. While I do not agree with all of them, I have found him to be fairly consistent in his opinions, which is also not the mark of a troll, who will often say pretty much anything in the service of causing trouble.

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* I always reserve the right to change my opinion at a later time.

I don't care how much you disagree with someone's opinion, ad homimen attacks are not ok. Vestitor is not a troublemaker. You may disagree with his opinions, you may think he is wrong in every conceivable way, but that doesn't mean it's ok to call him names.

This discussion has gone far enough, it is in no way related to Esperanto or even to marketing Esperanto (the stated topic of the thread). I suggest bringing the topic back to the thread's subject of marketing Esperanto (and as far as deceptive marketing of Esperanto -- have at it). Or else I suggest taking this subject to one of the Esperanto forums, to discuss the relative merits or evils of marketing in Esperanto. Surely this topic would make a refreshing change of pace from the international politics that get done to death over in "Vidpunktoj". Feel free to post a link here if you move the discussion over.

...and before anyone asks or mentions it - I don't care who started it.

erinja:Feel free to post a link here if you move the discussion over.

http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=1...

...and before anyone asks or mentions it - I don't care who started it.

But he started it