This thread doesn't deal with Esperanto per se but with language learning so I think it is relevant--at least as relevant as a multi-thread disputation on marketing.

But here goes: For part of my general education requirement for my undergraduate degree, I can take a course in Deaf Culture. (It fulfills one of two Western Culture requirements of the Global Perspective requirement.)

But Deaf Culture comes with an pre-req of Fundamentals of American Sign Language. I am a CODA (Child of Deaf Adults), so ASL was one of my native languages. (Aunts and uncles took pains to make sure I had copious and consistent exposure to spoken English, so I grew up essential bilingual.)

I went to the head of the Department of Sociology and Anthropology to see about getting the pre-req waived, and they sent me to the Department of Special Education that teaches the ASL course. (Interestingly ASL is not taught under the Department of Foreign Languages.)

Long story short, the requirement can't be waived since I've never had a class in ASL. I offered to take a test--take the final exam the students this semester are taking or have a conversation with the instructor(s). But nope.

I had 4 years of Spanish, after a 5 year hiatus in the Army before getting into college, and they required a placement test. (I ended up in Spanish 102--I barely earned a spot in Spanish 201 but they thought 102 would be the best place for me.)

I'm not trying to get out of taking the class at this point. I'm taking it during the summer intersession. I'm counting it as an easy A.

I'm just trying to understand the rationale of making a native speaker sit through a 101 class to take a class. (I get why ASL is a pre-req to Deaf Culture. But I don't get why making a person who has been using sign language from the cradle as the primary language in the home has to take a 101-level course in the langauge.)

Yeah, colleges can be draconian, arbitrary, and inflexible...

It sucks that that department doesn't have a test-out policy. They probably don't have any rationale for it. My guess is they never got around to putting together a test or policy or something for ASL.

The sad part is that after paying for that waste of time, they'll probably put you in groups all the time and you'll end up teaching other students.

The Foreign Language Dept. would probably test you out, but special ed... that's a different breed. Education departments love making you jump through hoops... It's possible no one in that dept. even speaks ASL and they just hire someone to come in as sort of a part-time instructor.

FoxtrotUniform:I went... to see about getting the pre-req waived

Why? Does your university keep track of class attendance? If not, just skip most of the classes and show up for the assignments and tests.

This is an easy way to boast your GPA.

Also, you can help the other students, which would make you feel good.

Alkanadi:

FoxtrotUniform:I went... to see about getting the pre-req waived

Why? Does your university keep track of class attendance?

Because he has to pay for that class. Even if he tries to skip classes, he'll still have to go often enough to make sure he's not missing any assignments and what not... which may not be an easy task.

Not to mention the cost of time, parking, the textbook, etc.

And yes, the Ed. dept. is exactly where you'd find professors who track attendance and make it a part of your grade. Many of mine did (the Ed. dept. is a different breed). It's a distinct possibility that his class will do this.

Many of my Ed. classes collected student work every single meeting... no way to skip classes; and trust me, I wanted to.

Right---like non-signers are supposed to develop cognitive academic language proficiency sufficient to do college-level work in one ASL course? That's stupid! And requiring you to take that class is so ridiculous that it defies logical explanation. And the worst part of it is, you'll probably have to sit there while some instructor (who is far less fluent than yourself) yammers on about how "IT's a LANguage!...IT's a LANguage!--English is an audio-oral language and ASL is a gestural-visual language!" (as though you couldn't figure that out on your own). Then, when you DO take your Deaf Culture class, the same students who took the basic ASL course you're being required to take STILL won't be able to understand the professor, and you'll probably wind up reverse interpreting for them. The college you're attending is shamelessly pandering for tuition money--and they know it--and if I were you, I'd consider transferring.

When I took Deaf Culture, the professor was a deaf woman who taught the class in sign language. Meanwhile, a hearing lady with AMAZING reverse interpreting skills stood there and repeated everything she said in English. The college hired her, thus making the class available to everyone.

She was NOT a CODA--ASL was a second language for her--but she had incredible skills and was in demand as an interpreter in the local deaf community. That provided a role model for other aspiring interpreters, plus helped people who wanted to improve their skills to double-check their understanding of what they had just seen the instructor say by hearing an immediate interpretation. Translation (no pun intended)--a lot of perspective signers got a chance to really learn about the deaf community and possibly get interested enough to jump in and learn to sign in earnest because they could get exposure to something about which they could get excited.

Which brings me around to Esperanto---an important aspect of attracting people to Esperanto is presenting something people can get excited about being able to do with it. Sometimes I think we overemphasize how comparatively simple Esperanto is and under-emphasize reasons for acquiring the language in the first place.

Why not take some alternative to Deaf Culture? For example, a course in the history of science or art, or the history of a particular religious tradition?

Miland:Why not take some alternative to Deaf Culture? For example, a course in the history of science or art, or the history of a particular religious tradition?

Both of my parents are Deaf.My culture is the hearing culture and the CODA [Child of Deaf Adults] subculture. I am not part of Deaf culture, but standing on the perifory if DC. Often my parents tell me I do not understand some part if their life. When I ask them to help me understand, they are told I CANNOT understand. So my reasons are entirely personal. So while I don't ever hope to understand on an experiential level, I think I can grasp DC on an intellectual level. So that's why I'm sitting through a class I will ace without breaking a sweat. It'll be like the first part of Billy Madison

The deaf culture class is for hearing students then? What is it's aim and do the deaf community support it? If your parents (and other deaf people too perhaps) think it's impossible to understand deaf culture without being deaf, I wonder how they view such an exercise.

As an aside: what is the relationship between Esperanto and its deaf learners? Do deaf people turn up in Esperanto circles?

FoxtrotUniform: Both of my parents are Deaf.My culture is the hearing culture and the CODA [Child of Deaf Adults] subculture. I am not part of Deaf culture, but standing on the perifory if DC. Often my parents tell me I do not understand some part if their life. When I ask them to help me understand, they are told I CANNOT understand. So my reasons are entirely personal. So while I don't ever hope to understand on an experiential level, I think I can grasp DC on an intellectual level. So that's why I'm sitting through a class I will ace without breaking a sweat. It'll be like the first part of Billy Madison

It's probably more a case of you being bi-cultural than it is of not being a part of the culture at all. I only say that because I have seen such an artificial dichotomy created between deaf-hearing (you'll notice that I refrain from spelling the word "deaf" with a capital letter) that more harm than good has been done, a lot of good people have been alienated, and I've even seen efforts made to drive wedges between family members. Just my observations--and I'd love to discuss them with you some time outside of the Esperanto forum. In any case, it IS truly fascinating to see the role that a shared language (as well as a shared trait, such as deafness) plays in defining a culture or conferring a group identity.

Vestitor:As an aside: what is the relationship between Esperanto and its deaf learners? Do deaf people turn up in Esperanto circles?

There are deaf Esperantists. I am not aware of an association of deaf Esperantists (unlike the Ligo Internacia de Blindaj Esperantistoj, the association of blind Esperantists).