글: 94
언어: English
lagtendisto (프로필 보기) 2016년 5월 16일 오전 9:39:57
Alkanadi:Second (and separate) point, Mi iras al vi is equivalent to Mi iras vin because it is the accusative of direction.What about some kind of use case you would see apply for your 'Mi iras vin'?
Does this situation describes 'Mi iras vin'? That would be how I would understand this in non-native German 'Ich gehe dich'.
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Alkanadi (프로필 보기) 2016년 5월 16일 오전 9:47:12
spreecamper:What about some kind of use case you would see apply for your 'Mi iras vin'?You mean like a situation where you would use this sentence. How about instead of Mi iras al vi?
Does this situation describes 'Mi iras vin'?I don't think so. One person forcing another person to do something would be. Mi irigas vin.
Mi iras vin means that I go to you.
lagtendisto (프로필 보기) 2016년 5월 16일 오전 10:05:17
Alkanadi:Mi iras vin means that I go to you.PMEG: 12.2.5. N por direkto
'...Praktike oni tiamaniere uzas solan direktan N-finaĵon preskaŭ nur ĉe propraj nomoj de urboj, landoj k.s., kiel en la ĉi-antaŭaj ekzemploj, kaj nur kiam temas pri iro al la interno de io...' / In practice this way only someones uses sole direct N-suffix mostly at proper names of towns, countries e.t.c.
PMEG 12.2. La rolfinaĵo N
lagtendisto (프로필 보기) 2016년 5월 16일 오전 10:18:59
Alkanadi:I'm not sure. Maybe I confuse this with Lidepla now where '-la' is used like substantive place holder suffixe. The use of 'la' only makes sense if 'universitato de Upsalo' was mentioned before this sentence. Please find yourself proper explanation at PMEG its index letter L.spreecamper:En 1895 du studentoj ĉe la universitato de Upsalo faris longan vojaĝonAlkanadi:En 1895 du studentoj ĉe la universitato...Please add some verb.
In 1895, two students close to the University...
Kirilo81 (프로필 보기) 2016년 5월 16일 오후 12:36:41
Alkanadi:Doesn't ĉe point to a location? PMEG1. Yes, ĉe points to a close location with or without contact (pace PMEG).
The location is the person.
2. This does however not corroborate your point. I have already clarified that the location is not simple vi, but ĉe vi - the whole phrase is a location.
This whole discussion is become quite bizarre: 5 pages now although no one of the people claiming that mi iras vin is possible and means mi iras al vi could show any such sentence in the Fundamento, the work of Zamenhof or other good authors.
The reason is simple: There are none, the claim is just wrong.
erinja (프로필 보기) 2016년 5월 16일 오후 12:44:11
Alkanadi:Mi iras vin means that I go to you.You do a disservice to beginners and other readers by continuing to insist on the correctness of an interpretation that is incorrect. A beginner who comes to this forum may read your statement and, having no experience to tell them otherwise, assume that you are an experienced speaker who knows what you are talking about.
If you think the established grammar has settled on the side of too much strictness in this regard, the best you could say is that this sentence SHOULD have the meaning you hope it has, but in actual Esperanto as it is spoken, your interpretation is simply incorrect.
Alkanadi (프로필 보기) 2016년 5월 16일 오후 2:05:49
erinja:...but in actual Esperanto as it is spoken, your interpretation is simply incorrect.I don't have any speaking experience. Perhaps the spoken version is different than the written version from a hundred years ago.
I think that the spoken version includes conventions, which people assume to be rules.